With respect to AFCI's, Do the bedroom lights have to be on the AFCI circuit or can they be fed from the same circuit ahead of the AFCI? Sorry if it appears to be a STOOPID question but, I've been in different cities in my area and I've gotten 2 different answers. How do y'all see it?
Safety
- Thread starter fgw
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Safety
I think the rule is clear enough. 210.12 says that all branch circuits that supply 125 volt 15 amp or 20 amp outlets in dwelling bedrooms have to have an ACFI that protects the entire circuit. I think there would be no question that a bedroom light is powered by this type of outlet. Therefore, the entire branch circuit has to have the AFCI protection. There is no allowance for installing any device upstream of the AFCI protection.
p.s. There are no stupid questions.
I think the rule is clear enough. 210.12 says that all branch circuits that supply 125 volt 15 amp or 20 amp outlets in dwelling bedrooms have to have an ACFI that protects the entire circuit. I think there would be no question that a bedroom light is powered by this type of outlet. Therefore, the entire branch circuit has to have the AFCI protection. There is no allowance for installing any device upstream of the AFCI protection.
p.s. There are no stupid questions.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Safety
fgw,
What edition of the code is in use in your area? If the area is under the '99 code, then only the branch circuits that serve the receptacle outlets require AFCI protection. If under the 2002 code all outlets must have AFCI protection for the serving branch circuits.
Don
fgw,
What edition of the code is in use in your area? If the area is under the '99 code, then only the branch circuits that serve the receptacle outlets require AFCI protection. If under the 2002 code all outlets must have AFCI protection for the serving branch circuits.
Don
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Safety
How can you put them ahead of the afci and be on the same circuit ?
How can you put them ahead of the afci and be on the same circuit ?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Safety
To drive the point home, the following is 210.12(B) from the 2005 Edition of the NEC, notice the exception.
(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.
FPN: For information on types of arc-fault circuit interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters.
Exception: The location of the arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be permitted to be at other than the origination of the branch circuit in compliance with (a) and (b):
(a) The arc-fault circuit interrupter installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the branch circuit overcurrent device as measured along the branch circuit conductors.
(b) The circuit conductors between the branch circuit overcurrent device and the arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a metal raceway or a cable with a metallic sheath.
To drive the point home, the following is 210.12(B) from the 2005 Edition of the NEC, notice the exception.
(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.
FPN: For information on types of arc-fault circuit interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters.
Exception: The location of the arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be permitted to be at other than the origination of the branch circuit in compliance with (a) and (b):
(a) The arc-fault circuit interrupter installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the branch circuit overcurrent device as measured along the branch circuit conductors.
(b) The circuit conductors between the branch circuit overcurrent device and the arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a metal raceway or a cable with a metallic sheath.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Safety
Why did they give them 3 more years ?If they are not safe in 2008 they are not safe now
Why did they give them 3 more years ?If they are not safe in 2008 they are not safe now
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: Safety
IMO this was never really a safety issue. Its about trying to sell a product of dubious value by conning or otherwise getting those respsonible for the code to go along with helping them sell their wares by making it a part of the code. Shame.Originally posted by jimwalker:
Why did they give them 3 more years ?If they are not safe in 2008 they are not safe now
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Safety
Jim,
Don
Jim,
Because the currently available branch circuit and feeder AFCIs won't provide the protection that we we lead to believe that they would and because the combination type required by the 2005 NEC are not on the market yet.
Don
- Status