Sale of 3-family home in the middle of a project

[jaylectricity]

I have been working on a complete re-wire of a triple decker in South Boston for over a year. It was moving as fast as a herd of turtles. Lots of changes as the project went on and some money issues for the homeowner kept it from progressing nicely.

Finished the rough and passed inspection a few months ago. Unfortunately when the owner called for his insulation inspection the inspector shut the job down. Apparently the building permit he pulled was to gut the place, have new wiring, plumbing, insulation and sheetrock installed, but he had done a lot of framing to change the layouts of the apartments and add stairways for second egresses.

Anyway, it looks like instead of pulling a new permit, he's just going to sell the building and he has a serious buyer.

What happens to my permit? The permit was pulled on the 2005 code and one specific issue is the subpanels for each unit. When we purchased them they did not have 3 20 circuit panels and after comparing the prices we found that we could get away with 3 12/18 circuit panels using tandem breakers and still pay less than the larger panels. At the time there was only going to be 1-2 AFCI's for the bedrooms but if I have to re-pull the permit I'll be looking at 7-8 AFCI's, plus the 2-pole for the A/C unit. I imagine I'll have to replace the panels which leads me to the next question.

If I can talk to the new owner and be the one to finish the job will Inspectional Services be OK that all that work was actually done long before the new permit? And conversely, if the new owner doesn't want me to finish the job what does that do to my liability?

 

[ivsenroute]

He may not be able to sell the home if he can't get a C/O depending on the rules in your jurisdiction.

 

[iwire]

He may not be able to sell the home if he can't get a C/O depending on the rules in your jurisdiction.

I think that will be a distinct possibility.

As far as you permit, go to Inspectional services and have your permit canceled, not odd or difficult.

 

[GUNNING]

Im not sure about jurisdiction but will your contract transfer with the property? If not you should be free and clear. (maybe?)

 

[djcrzysounds@yahoo.com]

Definitely pull your permit! But I know in my area if you passed the rough on 2005 code it shouldn't be a problem since it's 'done' however if you get the right guy he'll want you to change EVERYTHING.

 

[nakulak]

I would suggest before canceling your permit, meet with the two owners and find out what they would like to do. If they don't want to play ball, then clearly cancelling the permit is in order.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

It seems like the panels are exposed, as there is no sheetrocking??

Why not just change out the panels?

 

[jaylectricity]

I think that will be a distinct possibility.

As far as you permit, go to Inspectional services and have your permit canceled, not odd or difficult.

I didn't think it was odd, just wondering if it was mandatory.

Im not sure about jurisdiction but will your contract transfer with the property? If not you should be free and clear. (maybe?)

No contract, the current owner is a professional friend of mine. I do some work, he gives me money. It's worked out pretty well for a few years now.

Definitely pull your permit! But I know in my area if you passed the rough on 2005 code it shouldn't be a problem since it's 'done' however if you get the right guy he'll want you to change EVERYTHING.

The inspector for Southie is pretty easy to get along with.

 

[jaylectricity]

It seems like the panels are exposed, as there is no sheetrocking??

Why not just change out the panels?

Yeah, if he'll pay me to do it, I don't mind at all.

 

[dcooper]

I have had similar situtations. Once or twice. Let the inspector know what's going on. If you want out you can put a lien on the property. I do not think a property can get sold with open building pemits.
But if the property gets sold and the new owner NEEDS the work done and the old owner has nothing bad to say about you then unless his brother is going to do the work he would be an idiot not to hire you. You know the job inside and out.
I took over a job when the original permit was pulled before the 08 changes and the inspector told me I could follow the code that the 1st permit was pulled. But if you do have to pull a new permit on the 08 code then you will have a different price...... there have been code changes.
If the property gets sold then the person who buys is going to expect to put money into it.
I don't think you will have much to worry about. If you are owed money or afraid you are not going to get paid then put the lien on.
I always seem to find these head aches too.

 

[celtic]

He may not be able to sell the home if he can't get a C/O depending on the rules in your jurisdiction.

I think that will be a distinct possibility.

Do they have a thing called a TCO up there?
[Temporary CO]
Sometimes with a time stipulation [90 days?] to bring it up to CO status?


I don't see why an actual CO would be needed...the place obviously cannot be occupied.

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

I have been working on a complete re-wire of a triple decker in South Boston for over a year. It was moving as fast as a herd of turtles. Lots of changes as the project went on and some money issues for the homeowner kept it from progressing nicely.

Finished the rough and passed inspection a few months ago. Unfortunately when the owner called for his insulation inspection the inspector shut the job down. Apparently the building permit he pulled was to gut the place, have new wiring, plumbing, insulation and sheetrock installed, but he had done a lot of framing to change the layouts of the apartments and add stairways for second egresses.

Anyway, it looks like instead of pulling a new permit, he's just going to sell the building and he has a serious buyer.

What happens to my permit? The permit was pulled on the 2005 code and one specific issue is the subpanels for each unit. When we purchased them they did not have 3 20 circuit panels and after comparing the prices we found that we could get away with 3 12/18 circuit panels using tandem breakers and still pay less than the larger panels. At the time there was only going to be 1-2 AFCI's for the bedrooms but if I have to re-pull the permit I'll be looking at 7-8 AFCI's, plus the 2-pole for the A/C unit. I imagine I'll have to replace the panels which leads me to the next question.

If I can talk to the new owner and be the one to finish the job will Inspectional Services be OK that all that work was actually done long before the new permit? And conversely, if the new owner doesn't want me to finish the job what does that do to my liability?

How are you set up for payments. If the new owner goes with another EC, how bad off are you? Hopefully you had progressive payments. Do you have to put a lien on the place to get your blood, sweat and material out? Under the circumstances, that's what I'd be worried about. Once bought by new owner, then it's a matter of sitting down with the AHJ and seeing how you can go forward.

 

[iwire]

Do they have a thing called a TCO up there?
[Temporary CO]
Sometimes with a time stipulation [90 days?] to bring it up to CO status?

Sure, they are sometimes granted depending on the particular situation. :smile:

I don't see why an actual CO would be needed...the place obviously cannot be occupied.

Only that the mortgage lender may have an issue with it, they want a home they can turn around and sell without any issues if they had to. The lender may not want to be saddled with a home that is not ready to live in.

 

[GUNNING]

During a real estate closing here, there is something called a letter of estoppel. It means that what is not part of the property is not transferred unless its specifically dealt with at the closing. That's contracts, liens, etc. If they haven't been perfected by closing then they aren't transferred with the property. It cleans up the property pedigree to be sold. It ends claims to the property.
Clean up your part with the old owner. Its an opportunity to get new work with the new owner. Don't buy trouble. Get that permit closed or maybe it will get closed when the property transfers automatically. Ask the building department. I'm sure it has happened before.
Who knows they might wreck it out and turn it into a CVS or Walgreens, depending on what corner its on. then the CO question becomes moot.

 

[jaylectricity]

I have had similar situtations. Once or twice. Let the inspector know what's going on. If you want out you can put a lien on the property. I do not think a property can get sold with open building pemits.
But if the property gets sold and the new owner NEEDS the work done and the old owner has nothing bad to say about you then unless his brother is going to do the work he would be an idiot not to hire you. You know the job inside and out.
I took over a job when the original permit was pulled before the 08 changes and the inspector told me I could follow the code that the 1st permit was pulled. But if you do have to pull a new permit on the 08 code then you will have a different price...... there have been code changes.
If the property gets sold then the person who buys is going to expect to put money into it.
I don't think you will have much to worry about. If you are owed money or afraid you are not going to get paid then put the lien on.
I always seem to find these head aches too.

How are you set up for payments. If the new owner goes with another EC, how bad off are you? Hopefully you had progressive payments. Do you have to put a lien on the place to get your blood, sweat and material out? Under the circumstances, that's what I'd be worried about. Once bought by new owner, then it's a matter of sitting down with the AHJ and seeing how you can go forward.

At this moment I am paid in full for all work that has been done. I've been working for time and material since the beginning of the job. Good thing, since every time I showed up at the job something had changed. I was looking to see if I should try to keep the permit and move forward if and when the place was sold.

Thanks for the replies, guys.