Salt water pools

[tyingling@carrollcountymd]

Good morning, I am making inquiry to see if anyone has knowledge of a listed potting compound for wet niche encapsulations in salt water pools. Currently I have been finding many compounds carrying the UL listing label, which states for use in fresh water pools, fountains, and spas. If anybody has any insight into this type installation could they please enlighten me, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[SSDriver]

AquaBond doesn't seem to have any limitations about salt water listed on their web site. I see it used on salt water pools all the time. You might want to contact them direct, I would bet they will answer your question a lot quicker than 3m would with their product.

Wet Niche Potting Compound | Pool Light Potting Compound

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[tyingling@carrollcountymd]

AquaBond doesn't seem to have any limitations about salt water listed on their web site. I see it used on salt water pools all the time. You might want to contact them direct, I would bet they will answer your question a lot quicker than 3m would with their product.

Wet Niche Potting Compound | Pool Light Potting Compound

Looking for a wet niche potting compound? We've got you covered! Shop wet niche potting compound for pool lights with AquaBond Adhesives now!

aquabondadhesives.com

Good Morning SSDriver, thank you for your response. I have reached out to both 3M and AquaBond a few days ago and I am waiting for a response from both. I have looked into the UL listings for both AquaBond and 3M listed wet niche compounds and it appears that the standards are only tested and listed for salt-free use. Below I cut and pasted the from the UL's website their testing and use standards for UL 9MA7 for potting compounds. I am just curious to see if anybody has ever experienced this issue or if I am even looking at this in the correct perspective.
WCRY.GuideInfo - Potting Compounds

[Swimming Pool and Spa Equipment] Potting Compounds

See General Information for Swimming Pool and Spa Equipment

USE
This category covers compounds intended to be used to encapsulate grounding and bonding conductor splices or terminations in swimming pool, spa or fountain equipment such as fixtures, fixture housings, and junction boxes where the splices or terminations may be exposed to salt-free swimming pool or fountain water and sunlight for varying lengths of time, including continuous exposure. This category also covers potting compounds used to fill underwater junction boxes.

These compounds have been investigated for their resistance to the deteriorating effects of salt-free swimming pool and fountain water and ultraviolet light. They have also been investigated for their ability to adhere to typical metals, such as copper alloy, stainless steel and to plastic. The container or package is marked to identify the materials to which the compound has been determined to suitably adhere.

PRODUCT IDENTITY
One of the following product identities appears on the product:

Fountain and Spa Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound

Fountain Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound

Spa Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound

Swimming Pool and Fountain Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound

Swimming Pool and Spa Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound

Swimming Pool Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound

Swimming Pool, Fountain and Spa Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
For additional information, see Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ) and Plumbing and Associated Products (AAPP).

REQUIREMENTS
The basic requirements used to investigate products in this category are contained in UL Subject 676A, "Outline of Investigation for Potting Compounds for Swimming Pool, Fountain, and Spa Equipment."

UL MARK
The Certification Mark of UL on the smallest unit container in which the product is packaged is the only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its Certification and Follow-Up Service. The Certification Mark for these products includes the UL symbol, the words "CERTIFIED" and "SAFETY," the geographic identifier(s), and a file number.

Alternate UL Mark
The Listing Mark of UL on the smallest unit container in which the product is packaged is the only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its Listing and Follow-Up Service. The Listing Mark for these products includes the UL symbol (as illustrated in the Introduction of this Directory) together with the word "LISTED," a control number, and the product name "Swimming Pool, Fountain and Spa Equipment Conductor Splice Potting Compound" (any of the locations may be omitted).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
UL, in performing its functions in accordance with its objectives, does not assume or undertake to discharge any responsibility of the manufacturer or any other party. UL shall not incur any obligation or liability for any loss, expense or damages, including incidental or consequential damages, arising out of or in connection with the use, interpretation of, or reliance upon this Guide Information.

Last Updated on 2013-05-16

 

[GoldDigger]

It looks like this UL standard itself only covers salt-free testing. My questions are:
Is there a corresponding standard for salt-water pools?
Does the manufacturer assert, without benefit of UL testing that it is also suitable for salt water or salt-chlorine balance pools?
If there is no UL standard for salt water pools and the NEC requires UL listing does this simply mean that wet niches are prohibited for salted pools?

 

[tyingling@carrollcountymd]

It looks like this UL standard itself only covers salt-free testing. My questions are:
Is there a corresponding standard for salt-water pools?
Does the manufacturer assert, without benefit of UL testing that it is also suitable for salt water or salt-chlorine balance pools?
If there is no UL standard for salt water pools and the NEC requires UL listing does this simply mean that wet niches are prohibited for salted pools?

E
Ditto, that’s the direction I’m headed on the subject also. Mt thought also, was if we don’t have an listed potting compound to comply with 680.23B2b then I would believe that a wet niche wouldn’t be able to be installed in a salt water pool with a non metallic raceway being utilized

 

[SSDriver]

Thanks for that info, I have not really looked into before. I have not seen an issue with either product in salt water pools. However I never even thought about it. Most new residential pools in SoCal are salt water. It definitely looks like there isn't a product that complies with the testing standards. How ever if there isn't a product to comply with the standard I was under the impression you are ok to not comply. That being said for the last 8 years or so I only work on commercial and all the commercial pools have removed the salt systems do to issues with damaged equipment. Commercial pools( 4800-5200 ppm of salt) require systems with a higher salt content than residential( 2800 to 3400 ppm) to keep up with chlorine demand. The higher levels of salt destroy heaters within a year to year and a half, eat up the pool light brass screws in a year, and the stainless hand rails have to be replaced every year or two as they rust at the water level really bad. Only commercial pools that I have seen that keep them are therapy pools. The most important part about the potting compound is to clean the surfaces properly with the cleaner/wipes they include with the potting compound. It does make a difference.

 

[tyingling@carrollcountymd]

Thanks for that info, I have not really looked into before. I have not seen an issue with either product in salt water pools. However I never even thought about it. Most new residential pools in SoCal are salt water. It definitely looks like there isn't a product that complies with the testing standards. How ever if there isn't a product to comply with the standard I was under the impression you are ok to not comply. That being said for the last 8 years or so I only work on commercial and all the commercial pools have removed the salt systems do to issues with damaged equipment. Commercial pools( 4800-5200 ppm of salt) require systems with a higher salt content than residential( 2800 to 3400 ppm) to keep up with chlorine demand. The higher levels of salt destroy heaters within a year to year and a half, eat up the pool light brass screws in a year, and the stainless hand rails have to be replaced every year or two as they rust at the water level really bad. Only commercial pools that I have seen that keep them are therapy pools. The most important part about the potting compound is to clean the surfaces properly with the cleaner/wipes they include with the potting compound. It does make a difference.

Good morning folks, I did reach out to a couple manufactures and AquaBond did reply. For myself coming from a strong commercial background before becoming an inspector, sometimes you just have to humble yourself and ask questions about things you don't clearly understand and with today's constantly changing technology it can becomes hard sometimes to stay well informed. I know salt water pools have been around for awhile, but I was not familiar with their actual properties. My first thought was geared towards, if a listed compound isn't available for salt water, then if the installer wants to use a wet niche, they could always use a corrosion resistant raceway that doesn't require an insulated #8 for wet niche in salt water pools. But with a little bit of education from AquaBond I am more than comfortable with accepting their product or any product with a UL listing tested under the same standard. See their comments from their email to me below. Thanks again to everyone who responded!


Thomas,

All ‘Salt Water Pools’ (a misnomer) are actually fresh water with salt added to accommodate the chlorine generator. The confusion lies in ’Sea Water’ which would be about a 10 times greater salt concentration. The only Sea Water utilizations to my knowledge are in cruise ships and fish aquariums.



I hope this brief explanation helps. This question use to arise quite frequently from inspectors about 15 years ago when pool salesmen, home owners and realtors would designate or advertise mistakenly that the pool was ‘Salt Water’. Their are no UL Listed Potting Compounds listed specially for Sea Water to my knowledge. The original UL test was done with a hydrochloric acid solution.



Best Regards,



Gary Weise



Aquabond Technical Support