same pipe as service wire?
- Thread starter difowler1
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
No
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
If this is just a feeder from the main panel, then yes you can put them in the same raceway. But if is a separate service then they have to be kept separate.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Good point there.
While you can run a branch circuit with a feeder it is not something that I recommend doing as the derating required will greatly reduce the ampacity of the feeder conductors.
same pipe
same pipe
The service for the detached building comes off the meterbase on the main house, to a separate 200 amp disonnect and then to the detached building which would make it a "separate service". And therefore as iwire says, "no". Time to dig up his yard again.
But on a different job, I have ran other circuits within the same pipe when the service was coming off a feeder breaker on the main panel box. Reading about that in the code book I believe it mentioned if more than one circuit was ran to the same detached building, there would be a need to label the devices ran off the different circuits for identification purposes within the detached building.
same pipe
The service for the detached building comes off the meterbase on the main house, to a separate 200 amp disonnect and then to the detached building which would make it a "separate service". And therefore as iwire says, "no". Time to dig up his yard again.
But on a different job, I have ran other circuits within the same pipe when the service was coming off a feeder breaker on the main panel box. Reading about that in the code book I believe it mentioned if more than one circuit was ran to the same detached building, there would be a need to label the devices ran off the different circuits for identification purposes within the detached building.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
A close look at 230.40 and its exceptions might be in order.
??? Service wires are service wires and feeders are feeders. Service wires can not come off a "feeder breaker". Not being a nit picker but given the context of the discussion terms and definitions are important.
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
The fact that the wires are the sole source of utility power going to the building does not make them service wires.
Their being without any OCPD after coming from POCO, on the other hand, does make them service wires.
Their being without any OCPD after coming from POCO, on the other hand, does make them service wires.
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
Simple thought is unfused(from Utility) can not be in same raceway as fused (past main OCPD)
meternerd
Senior Member
- Location
- Athol, ID
- Occupation
- retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
[The service for the detached building comes off the meterbase on the main house, to a separate 200 amp disonnect and then to the detached building]
If it's downstream of a 200 amp disconnect, it is no longer a service. Service is ahead of the disconnect. Is the second disconnect located near the meter? Multiple disconnects (up to 6) must be "grouped" to meet Code.
If it's downstream of a 200 amp disconnect, it is no longer a service. Service is ahead of the disconnect. Is the second disconnect located near the meter? Multiple disconnects (up to 6) must be "grouped" to meet Code.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Grouping is only required at each building where the conductors enter each structure, since the 200 amp disconnect is outside the first structure and it's load conductors do not enter this structure, supply it, or pass through it, there is no requirement for it to be grouped with the disconnect for the first structure, in fact this disconnect was not even needed as with the exception #3 to 230.40 these could have been run as service conductors and saved on a EGC which would not have had to be run.
2008 NEC would have not allowed a second circuit run back to the main building but it seems the 2011 now does., I think it still does not allow a second circuit run to the out building, but that is up for interpretation???
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
A building will be supplied by either a branch circuit, a feeder or a service.
A building is generally only permitted to be supplied by one branch circuit, one feeder or one service. There are exceptions but typically for different voltage, phase, frequency or other characteristics, or for fire pumps, emergency systems, etc. One feeder or one service can typically have up to six disconnecting means though, with many previously mentioned exceptions to allow more then six.
It can get tricky sometimes when you have something running between two buildings to make sure you do not violate these rules. Low voltage control circuits between the two is one way to deal with it without violating feeder and branch circuit limitations supplying a structure.
- Status