Saw The New Leviton Resi Service Center Today

[al hildenbrand]

I've just come from the Upper Midwest Electrical Manufacturer's Trade Show in the Minneapolis Convention Center. I went with particular interest in the brand new entry into the residential load center market by Leviton. I got to handle the material.



The line card for this new Leviton hardware, which can be seen by clicking here, shows only two AFCI combination-type breakers, both single poles.

I was referred to Leviton Tech Support by the sales staff, which, after grabbing a cup of coffee and getting a seat, I did. Four transfers later, I learned that the Branch Circuit Neutral MUST be connected to the LOAD side of the AFCI breaker, but I also learned that the vanilla AFCI breaker does not sense for a ground fault along the branch circuit neutral.

I learned there is no provision for handle tie of two, or more, single pole breakers.

I learned that two pole AFCI combination-type breakers are in "the pipeline".

What these two facts, together, mean: Legacy MultiWire Branch Circuits that require AFCI cannot be supplied by the current hardware available.

Also, any Legacy MultiWire Branch Circuit, requiring AFCI, that has a 15 Amp and a 20 Amp OCPD, one on each leg, cannot be served by the available hardware.

The new Leviton Load Center has some strong and attractive features, however the above limitations seem to indicate that it is only suited for the New Construction market, not the existing dwelling market.

 

[augie47]

It appears they are getting a jump on them market for the 210.12 allows the listed combination breaker-receptacle AFCI allowance.
I wonder how the listed breaker-AFCI receptacle will compare in price to a AFCI breaker.

 

[JFletcher]

What size wires can the neutral bars accept? Do the factory concentric knockouts look like they come out cleanly? And price? Those three things would have to be better than Square D homeline for me to change. The lack of multi pole arc fault breakers would not be a problem here in Virginia yet...

I have a love-hate for Leviton products... they're Cat5e and Cat6 Keystone's are some of the best and easiest to work with, the jackrapid tools for terminating them quickly are not so hot. I have two broken ones for the cat 5e, one with a seized up rack and the other with a broken jaw, and I sold the Cat6 Jack rapid long ago. They're structured wire panels for houses are no good, but no manufacturer makes one that I even halfway like, so that's kind of a wash for them.

Those white circuit breakers are definitely going to need some wet wipes after installation to remove fingerprints. And of course they will need to be stocked on the truck, like I don't have enough circuit breakers already to keep track of. might just be easier to grab one at the supply house if I ever have to add a circuit to one of these panels

 

[rcarroll]

It kind of reminds me of that Square D Trilliant crap that came out years ago.

 

[mike7330]

I HATE this design

I HATE this design

I would never buy or install these!
I hate branch breakers that turn off opposite that of the "standard" breakers! they remind me of FPE!
I would hope that we could have a code change that would make all branch breakers operate with the OFF
on the load side of the breaker.
I could go on about some code issues that could come up using this style breaker
Safety can be an issue too.
Most electricians assume breakers are off when switched to the load side.
(Yes I know, check with tester)
Don't like will never use!!
Just my 2 cents

 

[JFletcher]

I would never buy or install these!
I hate branch breakers that turn off opposite that of the "standard" breakers! they remind me of FPE!
I would hope that we could have a code change that would make all branch breakers operate with the OFF
on the load side of the breaker.
I could go on about some code issues that could come up using this style breaker
Safety can be an issue too.
Most electricians assume breakers are off when switched to the load side.
(Yes I know, check with tester)
Don't like will never use!!
Just my 2 cents

FPE are awesome! The single pole Breakers never Jam, and if you find a jammed 2 pole breaker well... Instant welding circuit! What's not to like?

If Leviton can design an afci breaker that doesn't totally suck, they will dominate market, all other flaws aside..

 

[peter d]

I would be ashamed to install that Leviton piece of trash in a birdhouse, let alone a place where someone lives.

 

[peter d]

I've just come from the Upper Midwest Electrical Manufacturer's Trade Show in the Minneapolis Convention Center. I went with particular interest in the brand new entry into the residential load center market by Leviton. I got to handle the material.

View attachment 20175

The line card for this new Leviton hardware, which can be seen by clicking here, shows only two AFCI combination-type breakers, both single poles.

I was referred to Leviton Tech Support by the sales staff, which, after grabbing a cup of coffee and getting a seat, I did. Four transfers later, I learned that the Branch Circuit Neutral MUST be connected to the LOAD side of the AFCI breaker, but I also learned that the vanilla AFCI breaker does not sense for a ground fault along the branch circuit neutral.

I learned there is no provision for handle tie of two, or more, single pole breakers.

I learned that two pole AFCI combination-type breakers are in "the pipeline".

What these two facts, together, mean: Legacy MultiWire Branch Circuits that require AFCI cannot be supplied by the current hardware available.

Also, any Legacy MultiWire Branch Circuit, requiring AFCI, that has a 15 Amp and a 20 Amp OCPD, one on each leg, cannot be served by the available hardware.

The new Leviton Load Center has some strong and attractive features, however the above limitations seem to indicate that it is only suited for the New Construction market, not the existing dwelling market.

Why in the world did you waste time trying to learn more about this rubbish? :?

 

[Coppersmith]

Anybody know what "Hydraulic-magnetic trip" means?

One thing about the white breakers: It will be very obvious when someone sticks another brand in the panel.

The main breaker handle looks really small. I wonder how much force it will require to activate.

You would think they would get the approval of the tradesmen before offering a product. We have a big effect on sales.

 

[George Stolz]

It kind of reminds me of that Square D Trilliant crap that came out years ago.

I was thinking the same thing, and expect the same fate for these. Hopefully they gain no traction.

 

[peter d]

I was thinking the same thing, and expect the same fate for these. Hopefully they gain no traction.

I'm predicting this thing is DOA. You heard it here first.

 

[peter d]

Anybody know what "Hydraulic-magnetic trip" means?

One thing about the white breakers: It will be very obvious when someone sticks another brand in the panel.

I don't think there is any chance of that happening since this [trash] is a proprietary design.

 

[JFletcher]

I'm predicting this thing is DOA. You heard it here first.

You are probably correct, however, as I wrote above, if Leviton can somehow offer an afci breaker that isn't a complete PO... , then those panels will gain traction very quickly.

Personally, I couldn't care less if they just took a GFCI breaker and labeled it dual function without any so-called arc fault circuitry or protection whatsoever.