Schedule 80 PVC vs 40 and Where?

[wmgeorge]

I need to set a panel down at my lake property, this is a non-code area. But lets do things right. The meter socket enclosure (80 ft away) also has a 100 amp breaker feeding the underground to this rain tight panel. The underground feeder will be done by the local power company.

The Code says to use Schedule 80 when subject to damage, (when running up to the box) which would be pretty hard to hit to do as this is set back near some trees. I'm thinking about Schedule 40 instead which If I were to bet 99.9% of the other work down there is done in. Comments??

 

[dnem]

I need to set a panel down at my lake property, this is a non-code area. But lets do things right. The meter socket enclosure (80 ft away) also has a 100 amp breaker feeding the underground to this rain tight panel. The underground feeder will be done by the local power company.

The Code says to use Schedule 80 when subject to damage, (when running up to the box) which would be pretty hard to hit to do as this is set back near some trees. I'm thinking about Schedule 40 instead which If I were to bet 99.9% of the other work down there is done in. Comments??

I'm not sure what a "non-code area" is. . Under utility control ? . Not going to get permit/inspections ?

"Subject to damage" is subject to interpretation, but if you use Sch80 anywhere you're within 8 feet above finished grade [300.50(B)], you'll be playing it safe.

David

 

[wmgeorge]

David, Thank you for the reply. In the technical sense its not on pole or building but I agree better safe than sorry. The local electricians make me nervous, the only Code is what the Power Company requires before they connect.

Most of my past wiring has been industrial rigid conduit and wiring, no experience with PVC. If it needed a permit I would pull as I am Licensed Master.

I'm not sure what a "non-code area" is. . Under utility control ? . Not going to get permit/inspections ?

"Subject to damage" is subject to interpretation, but if you use Sch80 anywhere you're within 8 feet above finished grade [300.50(B)], you'll be playing it safe.

David

 

[tom baker]

UL considers Sch 80 to be equal to RMC for physical protection. The UL White book is part of the tirad every electrican should have the third is NFPA 70E

 

[dnem]

David, Thank you for the reply. In the technical sense its not on pole or building but I agree better safe than sorry. The local electricians make me nervous, the only Code is what the Power Company requires before they connect.

"what the Power Company requires before they connect" might be the closest thing you have to an inspection in your area, but if you're on the load side of the utility point of service, NEC applies even if there's nobody looking over your shoulder.

It's not a "non-code area". . It's a non-inspection area. . It's a hackers free for all. . And even the biggest inspector hater realizes that there's no money to be made when there's not a level playing field and you're competing against Tennisshoe Ted and his trunk full of counterfit UL marked 14gauge Romex and Federal Pacific 20a breakers.

David

 

[don_resqcapt19]

David,

NEC applies even if there's nobody looking over your shoulder

The NEC does not apply unless it has been adopted by some unit of government. There are areas that do not have codes. Until about 5 years ago, there were no building or electrical codes adopted for the unincorporated areas of the county that I live in. The only code was the state plumbing code. It was "buyer be aware".
Don

 

[dnem]

Don,

If wmgeorge means what you think he means, then I understand. . Is it common for non-NEC areas to have no electrical rules at all ?

 

[haskindm]

Even if the local jurisdiction does not accept or enforce the NEC, look at 90.4 which also states that the NEC is "for use by insurance inspectors". When and if something happens and an insurance company gets involved, anything that is not installed according to the NEC can and will be called into question. Best to strictly follow the NEC whether it is adopted or not. Non adoption does not relieve the installer from liability it increases their liability greatly.

 

[dnem]

Even if the local jurisdiction does not accept or enforce the NEC, look at 90.4 which also states that the NEC is "for use by insurance inspectors". When and if something happens and an insurance company gets involved, anything that is not installed according to the NEC can and will be called into question. Best to strictly follow the NEC whether it is adopted or not. Non adoption does not relieve the installer from liability it increases their liability greatly.

Such liability is debated in state courts. . I would think the particular state, in which this project is in, would have to adopt the NEC in order for it to be usable in state courts by insurance inspectors or lawyers.

David

 

[haskindm]

I don't know. The NEC is a widely adopted, well respected minimum standard. It would not take much of a lawyer to convince a judge, or especially a jury, that not following such a well-known, widely adopted, readily available standard would be negligent at best. The NEC is the ONLY friend that an electrician has if he finds himself in litigation. His ONLY defense is that the NEC requirements were met.

 

[Jake R. Laws]

Do you mean triad?

 

[wmgeorge]

Quick example... they use sewage pumps, commonly called grinder pumps. Having a slight problem one day with mine at the old place, turned out to be ants in the motor contactor. Did a little spraying and plugged the conduit to keep the rest of the little buggers out.
Did some checking of the wiring, it is a 230 V single phase motor that requires a white wire (neutral) for the 120 control circuit. Since they had not pulled a proper 3 wire with ground, they just tapped off the bare ground wire for the neutral, and marked the white wire black with tape.

"what the Power Company requires before they connect" might be the closest thing you have to an inspection in your area, but if you're on the load side of the utility point of service, NEC applies even if there's nobody looking over your shoulder.

It's not a "non-code area". . It's a non-inspection area. . It's a hackers free for all. . And even the biggest inspector hater realizes that there's no money to be made when there's not a level playing field and you're competing against Tennisshoe Ted and his trunk full of counterfit UL marked 14gauge Romex and Federal Pacific 20a breakers.

David

 

[dnem]

Since they had not pulled a proper 3 wire with ground, they just tapped off the bare ground wire for the neutral, and marked the white wire black with tape.

Oh yeah ! the neutral/EGC tap. . That falls under the new tap rules in 240.21(H). . And right now I'm dating Morgan Fairchild. . Yeah, yeah that's it ! . That's the ticket ! . And we're ..... engaged. . Yeah ! that's it !

David