Hi, I'm in the middle of trying to do a "scope of work" This would involve a new panel, kitchen re wire, installing recessed lighting, A/C disco and removing/replacing Knob and tube... I Know I need to break this down and put into specific projects and then put them into somekind of order to get them done in the most efficient time....My question is what's the easiest way to do this???What is being used as far laying this out and making this as painless as possible...Thanks, JB
"scope of work"
- Thread starter CBL
- Start date
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CBL said:
I have a book (hand wirtten by me) on what needs to be done but I'm only about 3/4 of the way...
Once this is completed I should be able to get aprox T&M
Now I need to lay out the order I should do this work in...
Any suggestions?
>not about what order I should do the work in but how to lay it out...
so I have an outline of projects, aprox time and sequence of work
maybe some kind of spreadsheet???
I seem to grasp things better when I spell it out...Thanks, JB:grin:
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
A scope of work is not a work schedule. All it does is set parameters for the work ( that way you know when you are finished ). Scope of work will cover the number of circuits and number of devices to be added, the materials to be used and who pays for the materials or devices. All you need to do is list if the materials are furnished by your company or furnished by the homeowner/contractor. ( be sure to list what you are actually going to use, don't just say a single pole switch, it's single pole switch, white, toggle type, residentail grade, they may think they are getting a lighted rocker type ).
If you are doing a kitchen remodel make sure that any wiring that is damaged during demo or need to be replaced for other than the kitchen is an additional charge.
The best idea is to write the scope of work out so it's easy for anyone to understand what you are agreeing to do and what is not covered, that way there are no misunderstandings at payment time.
If you are doing a kitchen remodel make sure that any wiring that is damaged during demo or need to be replaced for other than the kitchen is an additional charge.
The best idea is to write the scope of work out so it's easy for anyone to understand what you are agreeing to do and what is not covered, that way there are no misunderstandings at payment time.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Sounds like you're writing a how-to manual. The scop of work should be a lot more general, and mainly just detail what the end result will be. Not necessarily all the steps you're going to take to achieve that end result.CBL said:
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
My first thought was that the OP was going into micro management on the Job :grin: ...
Both, Mdshunk & Growler make a good pitch. I guess my "?" is? Is that SOP to give a scope of work to a client, or is it part of the contract, or is it a client sanity check moment or just a way one does business ?
Granted big jobs are a different animal, I've not been in Rehab construction.
Granted the take off would surely be noting contruction requirements, existing conditions, new, or special conditions. Another question comes to mind like how one would note construction requirements / conditions out of our line of work, AKA other sub required and note this since your being the prime contractor ?
With the reward of the contract wouldn't the Scope turn into nothing more than a service work order, well parts wise, I mean? Or one better the estimate becomes the "Scope of Work", I'm frankly pondering how everyone handles all this ?
Oh yes, Enjoy your Labor Day
Both, Mdshunk & Growler make a good pitch. I guess my "?" is? Is that SOP to give a scope of work to a client, or is it part of the contract, or is it a client sanity check moment or just a way one does business ?
Granted big jobs are a different animal, I've not been in Rehab construction.
Granted the take off would surely be noting contruction requirements, existing conditions, new, or special conditions. Another question comes to mind like how one would note construction requirements / conditions out of our line of work, AKA other sub required and note this since your being the prime contractor ?
With the reward of the contract wouldn't the Scope turn into nothing more than a service work order, well parts wise, I mean? Or one better the estimate becomes the "Scope of Work", I'm frankly pondering how everyone handles all this ?
Oh yes, Enjoy your Labor Day
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
cadpoint said:
You don't have to give a scope of work. I decided to use a scope of work to clarify the contract. If you try to give just a contract in general to remodel a kitchen then there can be a lot of confusion. Most residential plans are not like commercial plans with everything included ( materials and exact locations and so forth ). They will often just show six can lights with no mention of quality or type of baffel and trim or lamp, they don't even state clearly who is to furnish said fixtures. If you don't give a scope of work many homeowners will think that they have hired you for the duration of the project with no extra charges no matter how many changes they make. They will want you to quote the lowest quality of materials and provide the highest quality.
The more clearly you can define the parameters of your work the better off you are. Get a clear understanding at the beginning of the job and you won't have so many problems at the end.
I don't like verbal contracts ( by verbal I mean a contract for a set amount with all of the details being verbal ) because people have different ideas of what was promised by the end of the job. Document everthing and you can't go wrong.
Note* If customers catch you doing business in a sloppy and unprofessional mannor then they may think they can take advantage of your ignorance. They think you know what you are doing if you keep good records ( even if you don't ). Remember that a customer doesn't know much about electrical work so they may judge other areas of your performance.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
480sparky said:
It can and does happen.:grin:
In 1986 I worked for a contractor that gave an open contract to a customer. It basically stated that he would do whatever was necessary to make the customer happy, he got top money for the job but it sure took a lot to make that customer happy ( didn't make any money ). I learned a valuable lesson on his dime.
How much you get paid is not as important as how much work you have to do, to get paid.
growler said:
Without that scope spelled out, the homeowner can come up with a laundry list, light in basement has not been working, my daughters bedroom has an outlet, that is not working, by the way the lamp post light is out I think it's just a bulb, while your here, the switch in the garage only works sometimes, that thing in the bathroom, with the red button, is not working, the light in garage flickers, and you thought you were there, to remodel the kitchen!
And without a scope spelled out, and your on a kitchen project, they will find something new to add to the job, Oh you din't know about the undercounter lights, Oh ya I am sorry I din't mention the double ovens.
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satcom said:
Not to mention "the refigerator is now a built-in, we want an instant hot-water dispenser at the sink, we decided to put an appliance garage in the corner over there, and the little woman wants the bread warming drawer after all. We inherited a trash compactor from my brother as well, so that needs power, as does the wine chiller. And now that the ceiling's painted, we want 12 recessed cans instead of a central fluorescent. And we saw an article in a magazine about something called 'undercabinet lighting'. It looks cool, so..."
Ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
OH, you state this in your contract, and you follow up with the Scope of work ? !growler said:
Yeah, Living through that one right now..growler said:
SOP ! SOP to the words in Red, Not SOP, Slave on property!growler said:
I've stop saying "G_D", and say, "Praise the Lord", instead.growler said:
Basic Business Law, I hope everyone learned there money lesson(s) early and paided attention accordingly...growler said:
No Comment, ...
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Well CBL, You finish your "Scope" ? ? :grin:
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cadpoint said:
This is what it started out to be...
the Scope turn into nothing more than a service work order, well parts wise, I mean? Or one better the estimate becomes the "Scope of Work", I'm frankly pondering how everyone handles all this ?
This is what I'm trying to do...I have my "quotes" go to "work order" to "invoices" and I'd like to do the same type thing starting with the "Scope Of Work"...
Oh yes, Enjoy your Labor Day
Thanks for the advice and I hope everyone did the same....:grin:
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This is something I'm going to have to put some time into so it's not so time consuming...Thanks for all the GREAT help and advice and hope everyone has a great labor day weekend...JBhardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
CBL said:
My scope is very basic. It covers what I'm going to supply (not in great detail, but enough so we have the basics), and what I'm going to do. If there are some gray areas, I usually spell it out under the "does not include" list (like engineering fees, to be billed at cost +0%, same with permit fees because I work a lot of different places and I don't know if it is a $75 fee or a $1,200 fee). I always put in the wording under the does not include "work that is not specified above" and "extra work will be billed at our normal rates in addition to the proposal".
I also list the payment terms (very important).
The company I worked for years ago used to tell us not to use the word "contract". They always wanted us to use the word "proposal". I'm not sure why, but these are/were pretty sharp guys.
CBL,
I think you are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Yes a scope is a must for every job above a service call, but for smaller projects just use a brief bullet point type outline. If they accept it, you can get them to sign a copy. I am just going to make something up here as an example.
Project- Big K
Bid- $10,000
Included:
1) Materials, Labor, Permit and Taxes.
2) (6) New recessed lights (attached)
3) 200A 42 circuit panel (attached)
4) New A/C disconnect.
5) Removal of all knob and tube wiring in kitchen.
6) (2) Kitchen circuits as required by code
7) (10) GFCI protected kitchen receptacles placed as per code.
8) (1) Dedicated circuit for refrigerator.
9) (1) Dedicated circuit for dishwasher.
10) (1) Single pole switch for new lights.
Excluded:
1) Stone or concrete cutting.
This becomes an issue when they buy granite counter tops and back splash and want you to cut your devices in
2) Patching and panting.
You cant not paint or repair sheet rock with Kliens, don't even try it, if you have to cut sheet rock they have to fix it.
3) New main service feeder.
4) New AC feeder.
5) New circuits for anything else fed from existing kitchen circuits that are to be removed.
CYA, ya never really know.
This proposal good for 30-days.
Now attached cutsheets for the new panel, lights, and disconnect so it is very clear what they are getting. If you really want to go the extra mile add cutsheets for the devices and plates too.
Let me know if you need t quick tutorial on how to collect PDF cutsheets.
I think you are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Yes a scope is a must for every job above a service call, but for smaller projects just use a brief bullet point type outline. If they accept it, you can get them to sign a copy. I am just going to make something up here as an example.
Project- Big K
Bid- $10,000
Included:
1) Materials, Labor, Permit and Taxes.
2) (6) New recessed lights (attached)
3) 200A 42 circuit panel (attached)
4) New A/C disconnect.
5) Removal of all knob and tube wiring in kitchen.
6) (2) Kitchen circuits as required by code
7) (10) GFCI protected kitchen receptacles placed as per code.
8) (1) Dedicated circuit for refrigerator.
9) (1) Dedicated circuit for dishwasher.
10) (1) Single pole switch for new lights.
Excluded:
1) Stone or concrete cutting.
This becomes an issue when they buy granite counter tops and back splash and want you to cut your devices in
2) Patching and panting.
You cant not paint or repair sheet rock with Kliens, don't even try it, if you have to cut sheet rock they have to fix it.
3) New main service feeder.
4) New AC feeder.
5) New circuits for anything else fed from existing kitchen circuits that are to be removed.
CYA, ya never really know.
This proposal good for 30-days.
Now attached cutsheets for the new panel, lights, and disconnect so it is very clear what they are getting. If you really want to go the extra mile add cutsheets for the devices and plates too.
Let me know if you need t quick tutorial on how to collect PDF cutsheets.
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LawnGuyLandSparky
Senior Member
480sparky said:
Anyone see any of these last longer than a couple of years?
wirenut3
Member
- Location
- Northern New Jersey
Nope, not even once.
- Status