Se Cable in Raceway

[gmreynol]

We recently failed an inspection on an overhead service. We installed type SE cable inside a rigid conduit mast which was screwed directly into the meter base. The inspector cited that this was a violation of the UL listing of type SE cable. Any input is appreciated. TY

[ July 19, 2005, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: gmreynol ]

 

[redfish]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

The UL listing for SE is UL854, go to the Underwriters Laboratories web site and see what kind of info it supplies. Good luck, you're gonna need it.

 

[benaround]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

1) Looks like He has a good case

2) If you don't mind me asking, Why did you use SE cable in the conduit?

3) You can go to the UL web site,But it takes me hours to get anywhere.

frank

 

[davedottcom]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

I don't know why it would be a violation unless the pipe wasn't large enough. Remember you have to take the width of the cable at it's widest section, and use that measurement to calculate a cir. mil as if the cable were perfectly round (Not Flat) then use the 53% fill rule as if it were one conductor in a conduit. If it was 4/0 SE you would probably need about a 4" conduit to comply with the conduit fill rules.

Dave

 

[gmreynol]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

Actually it wasnt me who did it, but I admit I have personally done this this before out of convenience. During a service upgrade installing a mast through a roof you can address the bonding issue by threading the mast in the meter base. Other times the mast may not line up with the meter base in which you will have a space between you meter and mast (SE cable application). Not knowing this was a violation it was more convenient to only carry SE cable as an alternative to carrying SE cable and stranded conductors. This is a pretty common practice in the residential service world. Thank you for your input.

 

[stevenj]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

What type of mast was this for . Primary power? secondary power.? if RES sendary power I might know.
If the SE overhead cable was exposed then yes it would fail. Even though you terminated in box, that seems ok. but when se cable is exposed such as USE, it will fail the inspection because of the insulation rating of the cable. If you used USE-2 it would have passed or even TYPE-U with XHHW would pass. I Just did a service not to long ago and double checked this with the AHJ and he told me that USE would fail my install because it would be exposed more than 3 ft. coming out of the riser because of the insulation rating. some AHJ will approve it some will not thats up to them. but USE-2 would pass. again because of the insulation rating . FIre, Sunlight, etc, USE does not have one of the rating that USE-2 does and Type-U XHHW thats what fails it. I had this written down on the insulations of these conductors.but you might want to check the NEC it has in their
I just dumped the USE all togeather and went with TRI-Plex direct burial saves me trouble and time and I pass .. whoope.!

 

[stevenj]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

ok theirs more to this in the UL rating of the SE cable. the AHJ mentiond this, I'll be seeing him soon and I will ask. I know I have this written in my notes, which I can,t find at the moment,but it does have to do with your situation. I had the same problem. I will post it when I find it.

whish I could be a of more help

 

[mc5w]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

There is table in Annex B for the ampacity of types SE, UF and NM cables in raceways that are in free air. However, these rating are lower than these cables without raceway or THWN in raceway so that is another gotcha.

An inspector around here tried to tell use that we cannot use SER cable in an underground duct for temporary power. A lot of times we use the telephone conduit or one of the parking lot lighting conduits for temporary power. Aluminum SER cable has type XHHW conductors in it and the overall jacket protects the bare ground against electrolysis. The stuff has to be able to fend off driving rain when a hurricane comes through.

 

[mc5w]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

Triplex and quadplex URD cable is made out of USE or USE-2 conductors.

Almost every USE or URD cable sold around here is also rated type XHHW so that it can be used past the meter socket or for the rare indoor meter socket that you might need in a downtown area.

Your inspector may also be thinking of the days when USE ha slightly cheaper insulation WITHOUT fire retardents but the supply house around here would rather sell the dual rated USE/XHHW conductor just to cover their rear ends.

 

[vanwalker]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

2005 NEC if not prohibited it must be OK that will be the next take on this subject. THANKS GEO

 

[LarryFine]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

Originally posted by gmreynol:
We recently failed an inspection on an overhead service. We installed type SE cable inside a rigid conduit mast which was screwed directly into the meter base. The inspector cited that this was a violation of the UL listing of type SE cable. Any input is appreciated. TY

Can't you just take out the cable, strip the sheathing, and pull the conductors back in?

 

[highkvoltage]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

SE isnot listed for this use. Inspector is correct on this type of appication.

[ July 20, 2005, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: highkvoltage ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

Originally posted by highkvoltage:
SE isnot listed for this use. Inspector is correct on this type of appication.

There is no violation in putting SE in conduit in fact sometimes the NEC requires it.

230.50 Protection of Open Conductors and Cables Against Damage ? Above Ground.
Service-entrance conductors installed above ground shall be protected against physical damage as specified in 230.50(A) or (B).

(A) Service Cables. Service cables, where subject to physical damage, shall be protected by any of the following:

(1)Rigid metal conduit

(2)Intermediate metal conduit

(3)Schedule 80 rigid nonmetallic conduit

(4)Electrical metallic tubing

(5)Other approved means

[ July 20, 2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[websparky]

Re: Se Cable in Raceway

If you can't install SE in a conduit, how does the inspector explain this:

2002 NEC 230.54 Overhead Service Locations.(E) Separately Bushed Openings. Service heads shall have conductors of different potential brought out through separately bushed openings.
Exception: For jacketed multiconductor service cable without splice.