SE feeder cable

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hhsting

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Can you use SE feeder cable load side of main service disconnect? I have SE feeder cable that is feeding sub panel from main service disconnect.
 
tom baker said:
Do some research in the code instead of asking us to do that for you.
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I apologize should have mentioned background research done. Ok looked at 338.12 uses not permitted but don’t see it. I have main service disconnect MDP inside building. Feeder breaker 100A from MDP feeds SEC 3#2, #8 gnd in conduit to Panel A inside building same room above ground.

However after further research I am guessing 338.10(B)(4)(a)? Am I on right track? Interior means inside building or exterior outside building?
 
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hhsting said:
Can you use SE feeder cable load side of main service disconnect? I have SE feeder cable that is feeding sub panel from main service disconnect.
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SE Cable is OK to use as described. Any environment where it can be used as a service conductor, it can also be used as a feeder conductor.

You would not be able to use the bare conductor within the cable as your neutral, once you are on the load side of the main service disconnect. It would have to be the EGC, when SE cable is used for anything other than a service conductor. You would need SE type R cable, if your load requires both line conductors and the neutral. SEU cable contains a distributed array of strands of the bare conductor, while SER contains an individual bare conductor. SER is the type I've seen that has 3 or more insulated wires inside it, while I've never seen more than 2 insulated wires inside SEU.

The one place SE cable cannot be used, is underground, whether inside a conduit or direct buried. This applies to both SEU and SER.
 
electrofelon said:
Ummmm, do you want to think about that for a few more seconds perhaps and rescind the question?;) Im pretty sure if you look up "interior" in the dictionary it will NOT say "Interior: see exterior".
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Well it could mean wire interior inside walls but inside building, it could mean interior inside building, exterior mean outside wall but still inside building, exterior mean outside building period. You see which does code intent
 
In Washington we are not allowed to use SE cable. So when electricans from here go back east, they say, what is that on the outside of the building?
And the out of state folks see our services with pipe and wire, and whats with that. The standard service panel size has long been 200 amps as we had cheap hydro power and electric heat.
 
tom baker said:
In Washington we are not allowed to use SE cable. So when electricans from here go back east, they say, what is that on the outside of the building?
And the out of state folks see our services with pipe and wire, and whats with that. The standard service panel size has long been 200 amps as we had cheap hydro power and electric heat.
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Is that a utility-specific rule about the service conductors specifically? Or is that a Washington State electrical code rule about the SE cable wiring method in general?
 
hhsting said:
Well it could mean wire interior inside walls but inside building, it could mean interior inside building, exterior mean outside wall but still inside building, exterior mean outside building period. You see which does code intent
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You are being silly and overthinking this. Read all of 338.10(B)(4)(a), and also part II of 334 which it sends you to, it will be clear. It will help too if you stop in your mind inserting words that are not there. I.e. it just says "exterior" it does NOT say "in exterior walls"
 
Carultch said:
Is that a utility-specific rule about the service conductors specifically? Or is that a Washington State electrical code rule about the SE cable wiring method in general?
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The Washington state modifications are found in the Washington Administrative Code 296.46(B). It modifies 230.43 to say:

"The installation of service conductors not exceeding 1000 volts, nominal, within a building or structure is limited to the following methods: Galvanized or aluminum rigid metal conduit; galvanized intermediate metal conduit; wireways; busways; auxiliary gutters; minimum schedule 40 rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit; cablebus; or mineral-insulated, metal-sheathed cable (type MI)."

There is NOT a modification to article 338.10(A) which I guess there should be for completeness,, in fact there are not modifications to 338 at all.
 
electrofelon said:
The Washington state modifications are found in the Washington Administrative Code 296.46(B). It modifies 230.43 to say:

"The installation of service conductors not exceeding 1000 volts, nominal, within a building or structure is limited to the following methods: Galvanized or aluminum rigid metal conduit; galvanized intermediate metal conduit; wireways; busways; auxiliary gutters; minimum schedule 40 rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit; cablebus; or mineral-insulated, metal-sheathed cable (type MI)."

There is NOT a modification to article 338.10(A) which I guess there should be for completeness,, in fact there are not modifications to 338 at all.
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Ok, so it is everywhere in Washington, and not just the most common utilities that specify this.

One thing I don't read in to this rule, is whether in WA, it would still be allowed as a feeder conductor, or any other application where it would no longer classify as a "service conductor. The way it is written, still seems to let the national rules govern its use as a feeder conductor, and no WA specific rule overrides it.
 
Carultch said:
Ok, so it is everywhere in Washington, and not just the most common utilities that specify this.

One thing I don't read in to this rule, is whether in WA, it would still be allowed as a feeder conductor, or any other application where it would no longer classify as a "service conductor. The way it is written, still seems to let the national rules govern its use as a feeder conductor, and no WA specific rule overrides it.
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Yes it is still ok to use for feeder and branch circuits there.
 
Carultch said:
Is that a utility-specific rule about the service conductors specifically? Or is that a Washington State electrical code rule about the SE cable wiring method in general?
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Its a state code rule, no se cable for services. We also can't use EMT for services, probably due to fault current, not sure why the restriction on SE cable. Rules were in place when I started in 1978.
 
Carultch said:
SE Cable is OK to use as described. Any environment where it can be used as a service conductor, it can also be used as a feeder conductor.

You would not be able to use the bare conductor within the cable as your neutral, once you are on the load side of the main service disconnect. It would have to be the EGC, when SE cable is used for anything other than a service conductor. You would need SE type R cable, if your load requires both line conductors and the neutral. SEU cable contains a distributed array of strands of the bare conductor, while SER contains an individual bare conductor. SER is the type I've seen that has 3 or more insulated wires inside it, while I've never seen more than 2 insulated wires inside SEU.

The one place SE cable cannot be used, is underground, whether inside a conduit or direct buried. This applies to both SEU and SER.
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You are correct in that a 4-wire cable is required for a subpanel. You are not correct in saying SE type R means 4-wire. While most refer to SER as 4-wire, it also comes in a 3-wire. The "R" just means round.
 
tom baker said:
In Washington we are not allowed to use SE cable.
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tom baker said:
Its a state code rule, no se cable for services. We also can't use EMT for services, probably due to fault current, not sure why the restriction on SE cable. Rules were in place when I started in 1978.
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Tom, I had never noticed this, but look at the wording from the WAC, Ill paste it in here:

296.46(B) 230043 Wiring methods for 1000 volts, nominal or less.
(7) The installation of service conductors not exceeding 1000 volts, nominal, within a building or structure is limited to the following methods: Galvanized or aluminum rigid metal conduit; galvanized intermediate metal conduit; wireways; busways; auxiliary gutters; minimum schedule 40 rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit; cablebus; or mineral-insulated, metal-sheathed cable (type MI).
(8) Electrical metallic tubing must not be installed as the wiring method for service entrance conductors inside a building. Existing electrical metallic tubing, installed prior to October 1984, which is properly grounded and used for service entrance conductors may be permitted to remain if the conduit is installed in a nonaccessible location and is the proper size for the installed conductors.
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I am only seeing the restriction applying to service conductors WITHIN a building. I see nothing that prohibits using SE for service conductors as long as they are exterior.
 
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