Searching the Code

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oldmanriver

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I heard new conditions/requirements now mandate fire retardant paint on all AC 3/4" plywood backboards in telecom closets.

I looked through all the 2002 code, but can't find it. I heard it's coming out in the new 2004 code.

The closest I got to finding anything in the 2002 code was section 800.51.L which really did not address this but only eluded to it.

Does anyone have any insight on this?
 
Re: Searching the Code

PS.

The other thing I heard and am checking out is that all Single Family Residences, because of Cable Modems and DSL Routers are now required to have at least a 2' x 2' fire retardant plywood backboard.

I need to find this also, if it does exist.

I do a lot of telecom installs so this is important to me!
 
Re: Searching the Code

No such rule in the NEC, it could be a local code or just a local common practice that the inspectors are enforcing without it being written anywhere, that would be wrong.
 
Re: Searching the Code

We did have a inspector (from the Illinois Dept. of Public Health) ask if a plywood backboard in a hospital telecom room was treated. But he didn't refer to any codes, and that was the first time I ever even thought about plywood backboards being flamable.

Steve
 
Re: Searching the Code

First the new code cycle is 2005, which I have not read. But there is no requirement in 2002 code cycle. Ask the inspector to cite a local or national code requirement.
 
Re: Searching the Code

Dereck, the 2005 Code cycle is still in the process of being written and approved. The NFPA meeting in Salt Lake City will be where it will approved. After that is the appeals process. It will be available anywhere from late August to mid-September of this year. Most jurisdictions will adopt it in 2005. :D
 
Re: Searching the Code

Charlie we will be real lucky if washington adopts in 2006 and if it ever adopts in 2005 I would fall off my chair. The last wac did not adopt 2002 til april of 2003 and most ahjs did not adopt til the state did. That may be because they feel that they may have a hard time enforcing the new code until the state finally gets around to adopting it.
I recently worked on a large building here in seattle and the ahj reqquired treated backboards for all telecom ,fire systems, and security systems. I do not know where our firm found the treated plywood or what exactly the treatment might have been. I tried to laocate a supplier but noone knew what I was talking about. Should have asked the foreman I guess.

[ March 09, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: stew ]
 
Re: Searching the Code

Since treated plywood is part of a listed fire rated assembly, I would think it would be easy to come by. :D
 
Re: Searching the Code

Fire retardant plywood is required by the telcom folks. We use 3/4" ACX and then paint it with two coats of fire proof paint. Seatlle has its own building and electrical code and is typically more strict than the NEC. The plywood is not a code issue at all. But if you want phone service you'll use it!
Call a paint store, we get ours at Kelly Moore.
 
Re: Searching the Code

We checked and no one in Dallas had fire retardant paint, not even Kelly Moore and Sherman Williams.

We can get from Houston, but smallest is 1 gal. and is $67 a gal. with $7 shipping.

I've been reading specs from all government and school board, found on-line and all either call for the fire-retardant paint on the boards or for actual fire-retardant plywood, take your pick.

I know SBC and Verizon has been using this for years and is part of their standards but they have the board painted in their paint shop by the dozens.

I'm wondering what kind of market boards like this will have if the code change it adopted.
 
Re: Searching the Code

Charlie,

I was looking at the actions up for consideration on the NEC site, but could not figure out which one it is covered under. Do you know?
 
Re: Searching the Code

I downloaded the ROP and read through. No such change proposed. My buddy that told me the code was changing, he said NEC, but must have been referring to a UL standard.

I know BICSI has had this as a standard for, I think, around 25 years, so not a change there.

I guess I'll have to run through all the UL docs to see if that is what was being eluded to.

One thing I do personally wish is that NEC would adopt more of the BICSI standards under the communications section. It get's real frustrating to talk with electricians, about installing comm cable for them, they say no, then you get called out on their job, after the fact, where they messed it up, because they don't understand what is needed to ensure bandwidth and data integrity. Most of them can't give a one year warranty (min comm warranty) on the install, because they just don't understand what is needed.

Case in point: NEC says 4" separation, but any comm tech know 18" on any parrallel run, 36" from any florescent fixture and crosses of conduits and fixtures at 90 degrees only.

If you ask the electrician, doing a comm install, "Did you run an OmniScan?" he say "What's an OmniScan?"

Oh well, I'm through venting, I'll run off and see if I can find this "CHANGE" in the UL standards and maybe call my buddy to see what he was talking about.
 
Re: Searching the Code

oldmanriver, I understand your comments, as I have worked in telecom for 23 years. But the NEC are minimum safety requirements, and do not guarantee operation. Bellcore, BICSI, etc, are good installation practices, but they are not enforceable unless included in contract language, or adopted by local codes.

[ March 10, 2004, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: dereckbc ]
 
Re: Searching the Code

Oldmanriver my suggestion if you are in the position to, is get these items in the job specs.

I know little of comm rules or practices, in the absence of clear specifications I will install to NEC standards.

That does not make me a bad electrician, tell me what you want in the specs and I will make sure you get it. :)
 
Re: Searching the Code

Coronado paint puts out a fire retardent sealer, it looks like polyurethaine, smells like a bio-hazzard.
I would ask your local fire inspector if he/she knows where to find this ordenance or code, also if they know of any other products
 
Re: Searching the Code

Iwire,

I was not saying anyone was a bad electrician, just saying most don't understand. It's OK to say I don't know, but the frustration comes when someone says "I know and I can do it" then you have to come bail them out when they have egg on their face.

It also make customer relations hard, because by that time the customer is usually, should I say less than pleasant.

Oh after vain and fruitless searching, I called my buddy, that got me going on this and he told me it was the EIA/TIA standards that are making this a requirement. I searched there some and have not found the section in question, so will need more research to get that.

Thanks to all that went along with me on this ride though. I've enjoyed the conversation and education in the process.
 
Re: Searching the Code

Originally posted by oldmanriver:
I was not saying anyone was a bad electrician, just saying most don't understand. It's OK to say I don't know, but the frustration comes when someone says "I know and I can do it" then you have to come bail them out when they have egg on their face.
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I could have worded my post better I really did not take it that way. :)

This issue is not an issue for the NEC, it is an issue for the engineers preparing the specifications for the job.

It is frustrating as an electrician to do the job as drawn and specified and it is still wrong. :(

It is disappointing to sit at a job meeting and play the finger pointing game, this is also very maddening for the customer. :eek:

As has been pointed out the NEC is about safety not serviceability.

Take grounding, NEC is adequate for safety but may not be adequate for the quality grounding for the Tel Com industries.

JMO, Bob
 
Re: Searching the Code

Gang,

I found out the code change is in the BICSI TDMM Version 10 (2003 Release) and the sections effected are:

7.2 Telecom Rooms
7.9 WallCoverings

I still do not have a hard copy of it, but have feelers out on it. The interesting impact on 7.2 is that a minimum of two walls must be entirely covered with plywood either fire rated or with fire retardant paint.

It applies, just like NEC, to Alarm System, Telco Eq. and CATV Eq.

I suspect, though we will see it miss this round in NEC, we will see it in the next pass. For now you will probably get past inspectors, but not attorneys, if there is a law suit.

I'm still trying to assess the impact on residential since DSL and Cable Modems are classified as Telco Eq. and may require a board in each new home.

I'll let you know what and when I find out
 
Re: Searching the Code

oldmanriver,
I suspect, though we will see it miss this round in NEC, we will see it in the next pass. For now you will probably get past inspectors, but not attorneys, if there is a law suit.
Click to expand...
what are you talking about?

Do you have any idea of the way the process works?

Roger
 
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