Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

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bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
New Exception to 300.5(D)(3):

Exception: Where the cables or raceways are installed per 300.5(K), warning ribbon shall not be required.

Substantiation: I do not believe there is a practical or effective method for complying with this section when service entrance conductors are installed using directional boring equipment.
 

sandsnow

Senior Member
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Good idea.

On a humorous note, bore a hole 12" above the hole you bored for the service conductors and pull the ribbon through! :D
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Bryan,
This has been proposed before and the panel comment ws that a code change is not needed because the rule only requires a warning ribbon for conductors intalled in a trench.
3-45 Log #3110 NEC-P03
(300-5(D)(3))
Final Action: Reject
Submitter: Thomas J. Garvey, State of Wisconsin
Recommendation:
Revise the first sentence to read: Service Underground Conductors. Underground service conductors that are not encased in concrete and that are...". (Remainder of text to remain the same.) Add an Exception to read: "Conductors installed in conduit by means of direction boring equipment."
Substantiation:
The ribbon provides early warning for all types of buried conductors. Feeder and branch circuits are not the responsibility of the utility and often not located prior to digging. The ribbon is impracticable to install with directional boring equipment. It can be plowed in at the same time as the conductors.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement:
See the Panel Statement on Proposal 3-44.
The proposed exception, as recommended in the proposal is unnecessary since this section only requires the ribbon be placed in the trench and boring machines do not create a trench.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Affirmative: 12
Don

[ October 27, 2004, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Opps, I read right past that logic. Thanks.

[ October 27, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Bryan,
I actually think that the change should be made to require the warning tape for all service conductors. I don't see how the hazard has been reduced as a result of the installation method. A dig-in is just as likely to happen with conductors that have been installed by boring as with those installed by trenching.
Don
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Don, the installation method makes a lot of difference. It would be impossible to install a ribbon above the service cable if it is bored. You are forcing that method to be abandoned in favor of open trenching. Additionally, you are not permitted to require this tape to be installed over my service conductors, only the ones installed, owned, and maintained by our customers. :D
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Charlie,
I understand the cost and difficulty of installing the warning ribbon when directional boring is used as the installation method. What I don't understand is how that makes any difference in the safety of the installation. The warning ribbon is required above trenched in cables to help prevent "dig-ins". How does that fact that the cable was installed using directional boring equipment prevent "dig-ins". Why is cable installed by trenching less safe? And yes I understand that in many cases the conductors in question are covered by the NESC and not the NEC.
Don
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

I know what the code says, but the practical side is the warning ribbon does little to protect the conductors against dig up. You have to be on site when the ditch is filled, only go half way, put the ribbon in and then compelete backfill.
I have seen an excavator dig up a 3" RMC conduit and ribbon in one bite.
The best way to protect UG conductors is to bury the conduit or conductors in a bed of sand, when digging if you find sand you are close. 1 sack concrete dyed red is also good protection when poured around the conduit.
We have good success with our underground locations and the locators are very accurate.
 

sandsnow

Senior Member
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Underground locating is required here in SoCal, don't know about other areas. I don't know the background of the requirement, it is for public right a way only.
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Underground locating is required here in Indiana also (state law) and it is not just the Rights-of-Way. I believe you gotta call for locates wherever you dig. I am trusting that if I am wrong that one of our Hoosiers will correct me. :D
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

You are correct and to go one futher, the law also provides for a fine for not calling in. If I remember right the fine can be up to $10,000 plus the damage done.

I'll look it up later as a'm at a friends house.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Re: Section 300.5(D)(3) - add Exception

Here is a link to the Indiana law requiring to call for locate's before diging:

IC 8.1.26

But I haven't found where it say's what you would be charged with (other than a law suit) for not complying with it.

[ October 28, 2004, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
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