Self Certification

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jeff43222

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Minneapolis, Minnesota
I was contacted today by someone who is preparing to sell a property, and the city housing inspector flagged several electrical items that, under city ordinance, have to be inspected by an EC, who then must sign a certification form saying the items are safe, code-compliant, etc.

After talking to the homeowner and the housing inspector, I discovered that some of the items will need actual work to fix, and that will require me to pull a city permit and have a city electrical inspector sign off on my work. What I found very odd is that the certification form still needs to be signed by me, but I'll be certifying my own work. I pointed out that it seemed like a conflict of interest for me to inspect my own work and pass it, but the housing inspector told me it's not a problem at all.

Anyone else find this weird?
 
Re: Self Certification

I don't think this is weird. You are talking about two different types of inspections or certifications. It is common for an engineer to be asked to inspect something and certify that it is safe or to report any unsafe conditions. You are acting in an expert capacity by saying that the installation meets code or that the installation is safe.

Obviously, if there are code violations, then you can't sign that certification yet. At that point, you act in your capacity as an EC. You give an estimate for the work that you think needs to be done. You pull your permits and do the work. You arrange for the AHJ to perform an inspection. The purpose of the AHJ's inspection is to verify that you did only the work that was covered by the permit, that you did it correctly, and that the completed installation complies with code.

Now you can sign that "weird" certification. When you sign it, you are not saying that your work was done correctly or that your work meets code. The AHJ has already done that. You are saying that the entire house, as it now stands, is in compliance.
 
Re: Self Certification

fairly common in my area....elect.inspector "safety inspections" are cursory at best. owners are advised to have an EC
check, correct and certify. EI then inspects his work in the normal manner.
Our thought is that our job is to check electrical installations to see that they are code compliant. most do not to wish to invest the time or take the liability to cerify overall electrical safety of electrical system..not for a $25 permit.
 
Re: Self Certification

Originally posted by charlie b:
Obviously, if there are code violations, then you can't sign that certification yet.

Believe it or not, the city housing inspector told me I could sign the certification form before I do any corrective work. I told her there's no way I would do that.

Now you can sign that "weird" certification. When you sign it, you are not saying that your work was done correctly or that your work meets code. The AHJ has already done that. You are saying that the entire house, as it now stands, is in compliance.

Fortunately, I don't have to sign off on the whole house. One option on the form is for me to certify that the items flagged by the housing inspector are OK and that I didn't inspect anything else.
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That particular city is pretty well known as being picky about inspections. I've been called in several times in cases like this where the housing inspector flagged work that was done without a permit, but I wonder how they knew exactly when work was done. Perhaps they compare what they find during a housing inspection with what was listed during the last one and flag anything that's new for which no permit was pulled. So if the last inspection listed x receptacles in the back bedroom and this one shows x+2 receptacles, if no permit was pulled they flag it. Or maybe they just flag obvious code violations. Most of the time when I'm called in on these jobs, the code violations were obvious enough that I was 99.9% certain the work wasn't done by a pro or under a permit.

Actually, I wish more places had some kind of system like this in place. Too many times I've seen homeowners stuck having to pay to correct bad electrical work that was done by a previous owner. I just finished a kitchen rough-in yesterday that wound up costing the homeowner a lot more than it should have because of all the non-compliant stuff I had to fix.

[ November 29, 2005, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: Self Certification

When you sign a contract to do the work, isn't that almost the same thing?

Is anyone signing a contract for work with the implicit thought of performing the installation incorrectly?
 
Re: Self Certification

Originally posted by pierre: When you sign a contract to do the work, isn't that almost the same thing?
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This is something beyond taking responsibility for your own work. You also have to certify things that you did not work on. Essentially, you have to say that the owner did not have to fix certain items on the Home Inspector's list because they are acceptable as-is.
 
Re: Self Certification

What exactly are you certifying?
I have been asked (paid) to certify the electric service on a residence. This requires an inspection of the service panel, meter, riser, ground system, etc. Most of the discrepancies found are oversize fuses, or multiple wires on the breakers, and other "common" DIY mistakes. The certification letter specifically lists what discrepancies (code violations) are found. At that time I also give an estimate to repair. If the customer has us repair, we issue a "clean" certification letter. If the HO gets someone else to repair, I'll go out and re-inspect and if all the corrections have been made issue a "clean" letter. If the corrections are not made, we make the corrections T&M.
The last paragraph of our cert letters has a disclaimer (attorney recommended). We have only had one problem, and that was a 4 br was fine for the original owner (4 people in family) but when the new family moved in, they constantly tripped breakers. The new family had 6 kids! You cannot run 2 hair dryers at a time in the same outlet!

So you can actually certify your own work.
 
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