Self-indicating AFCI?

[Guest]

Somewhere I recall hearing that AFCI's are not
ready-for-prime-time because they are not self-
indicating. Today I came across this AFCI. To me
it is self-indicating, and it does an
automatic and periodic self-test.


I was intrigued by the RJ-45 (or so it appears)
connector coming out of the circuit breaker, and
the onboard MPU.

What are your thoughts?

Zlan AFCI self-testing circuit breaker

../Wayne

Here is the schematic:

[ September 11, 2003, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[tonyi]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

Notice the EEPROM rather than a ROM - the firmware for the micro sounds like its intended to be field upgradable. It would be nice to be able to suck some trip history out of a unit when trouble shooting. The diagnostic procedure stickers everyone is shipping will eventually get you there, but knowing it was a AF or 50ma GF trip up front would speed the process quite a bit.

 

[macmikeman]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

You know what? I am in awe of you guy's that fully understand what is going on in this diagram. I have spent the last 25 years on the buisiness end of a pipe bender and a whole hog millwalkee drill with a 2 ft. ship auger. Wish I knew more of the field. just random thoughts.

Mike

 

[tonyi]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

I must confess that in a previous life I spent about 20 years working as a computer and software engineer, so this kind of system block diagram is something I'm familiar with.

 

[big jim]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

It seems to me that, if they are going to have a low voltage comm link, it should really be on the face of the unit and away from the power wires. That pigtail is not good.

 

[Guest]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

On it's face the mockup in the image is scary. I would like to see the real thing and see how they safely address the issue of separating low-voltage and high-voltage components and functionality-- externally & internally. The jury is still out on this one.

 

[iwire]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

There are already breakers on the market that have low voltage control wiring on them and processors in the panel that control them. The processor can be networked with cat 5 wire. The Cat 5 wire runs from the processor through the panel interior inside ENT.

Square D "Smart link" is one type, and I know Cutler Hammer makes another version of this.

These panel utilize the breakers as relays, they can be stand alone units that you program times into or you network and control from a central location.

Remember that the manufacturer's can do things we can not, as long as they pass UL testing.

 

[ctroyp]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

Bob (iwire):

I can see the advantage of capturing fault times and other data, but will the cost of these type breakers be justifiable? I am speaking more for residential.

Similar type methods are used in the industrial realm for data collection and they are very useful to maximize efficiencies and provide cyclic data for predictive maintenance programs and other uses.

Is this overkill for the residence? Will it save that much time troubleshooting a fault?

 

[tonyi]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

Current AFCI's already have an embedded microprocessor, so this is really just a [technically] minor evolution of the existing designs that adds the I/O capability and field upgradability via the EEPROM. Added manufacturing costs, materiels wise, for this type unit over existing ones would probably be a few pennies.

The pigtail is a concern...it would undoubtedly get torn off as people yank and bend wire around through panels. A couple of small contact pads in depressions at the top of the breaker you could press a probe against would be nice - no need to take the cover off with something like that.

 

[ctroyp]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

Good point tonyi.

Don't get me wrong--the whole reason I am returning to the residential field is because of the advancements like this, home automation in particular. I thrive on the industrial technology, but like working in the residential atmosphere better. I guess I love the smell of the wood.

 

[tonyi]

Re: Self-indicating AFCI?

Have you checked out the Cutler APC system yet? Basically a hotrodded "CH" panel chassis with all sorts of automation and power monitoring options.

I kinda prefer the basic "CH" design over most other residential/light commercial stuff. The robustness of the guts hasn't slipped over the years like it has with GE and SQ-D's, and the CH hook foot retains the breakers better than the QO - particularly with GFCI and AFCI breakers where there's a lot of back end overhang.