Self testing GFCIs

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forcebjj

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Has any one had trouble with the new self testing gfcis? Have had a few that trip during a self testing, then they lockout making the device useless. Short of replacing which i have done, I am little stumped. This has happened for both line and line/load applications.
 
forcebjj said:
Has any one had trouble with the new self testing gfcis? Have had a few that trip during a self testing, then they lockout making the device useless. Short of replacing which i have done, I am little stumped. This has happened for both line and line/load applications.
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Have you tried a standard GFCI? There may actually be a problem with the circuit or a connected load.

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forcebjj said:
Has any one had trouble with the new self testing gfcis? Have had a few that trip during a self testing, then they lockout making the device useless. Short of replacing which i have done, I am little stumped. This has happened for both line and line/load applications.
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Yes, I had an attic one trip and not reset under no load, lights wired from load side. It was on a MWBC, neutral split before the GFCI. Incandescent lights on keyless fixtures. Checked all fixtures for EGC touching neutral; no dice. Put lights line side (didnt require GFCI protection). Just was glad to get the heck out of that attic. Never seen another problem like it.

Never seen it happen line side only, tho I can imagine some come from the factories a little more sensitive than others. If you change nothing other than the GFCI, and the second one works, what does that say about the first one? I chalk this up to new tech not quite ironed out 100%.

and welcome to the forum
 
It has been happening a whole lot. They are like the older AFCI breakers- dysfunctional. Especially Leviton brand ones. I have had a dozen failures in new installs with those, and yes, merely replacing said device and the problem goes away, so please do yourselves a favor and don't try questioning my install. You will make yourselves look ignorant if you do, trust me on that.
 
self testing gfcis

self testing gfcis

GoldDigger said:
Have you tried a standard GFCI? There may actually be a problem with the circuit or a connected load.

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Unfortunatly the big box stores in my area are not selling non self testing gfcis. Maybe ordering in advance from electrical supply house or straight from distributor. Thats a pain, we are a small company only buying what we need. The circuit it is on are basic 15-20amp circuits.
 
forcebjj said:
Unfortunatly the big box stores in my area are not selling non self testing gfcis. Maybe ordering in advance from electrical supply house or straight from distributor. Thats a pain, we are a small company only buying what we need. The circuit it is on are basic 15-20amp circuits.
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I think that the non-self-testing ones can no longer be manufactured, possibly not even sold as old new stock.
I was thinking more of keeping a couple of old ones on hand for testing. I'm pretty sure it would not be legal to leave one newly installed.

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GoldDigger said:
I think that the non-self-testing ones can no longer be manufactured, possibly not even sold as old new stock.
I was thinking more of keeping a couple of old ones on hand for testing. I'm pretty sure it would not be legal to leave one newly installed.

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from Leviton:

There is a new revision to the UL 943 standard effective June 29, 2015. This new standard requires all GFCI receptacle manufacturers to produce GFCIs with an auto-monitoring (self-test) feature that automatically conducts a periodic internal test to confirm the GFCI is able respond to a ground fault. If a problem is detected during the self-test, the GFCI must automatically trip and deny power or provide a visual and/or audible indication.

Yes. You can continue to sell, install and use any GFCI products manufactured prior to the effective date of the revised standard with no restrictions on phase out.


http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=66915&minisite=10251
 
As Fiona mentioned the self testing is a listing requirement change. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the older ones they are still good under the previous listing standards. There is no NEC requirement to use the new listing for your new installs, it is still considered a GFCI. Some may or may not have local codes that go a little farther with such requirements though.

What it does mean is once the stock of the older ones is depleted, you won't have much choice but to use a unit that was made under the new listing standard. GFCI circuit breakers currently do not have this self test feature or even line - load reversal features, they apparently are not included in the listing standard that requires those features, but they likely have other listing standards that are common with receptacle type devices, like the 4-6 mA trip threshold.

AFAIK the self testing feature on latest listing requirements has nothing at all to do with the test and reset buttons - the test button is still an actual load applied to unbalance the monitoring CT and should result in causing the trip mechanism to operate. This latest self test is constantly monitoring the electronics of the device to determine they are still in working order - I don't know much more then that, or even what the proper response is if there is a problem detected.

Those experiencing newer non working devices probably either have a defective unit, or possibly have had a high enough surge hit the device to compromise it would be my guess.
 
forcebjj said:
Has any one had trouble with the new self testing gfcis?
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I make it a point to return the item for an exchange. . . I can't do it directly with the manufacturer, most all of the time, so I have to hope that the intermediary that accepts the bricked item will, in fact, get it back to some representative of the manufacturer.

It's the only way they'll benefit from our experience, IMO.

My most recent was an AFCI / GFCI combination receptacle, picked up from my supplier, installed, and it SELF-bricked sometime during the first three days after installation. It had no load side branch circuit extension, and only had a two wire table lamp plugged into it. It had been installed to an existing ungrounded wiring method, knob & tube, a realty inspection required correction calling for the replacement of an old grounding type receptacle showing no EGC. The homeowners reported they hadn't even used the table lamp before the first time finding that it couldn't be energized. They attempted resetting the AFCI / GFCI receptacle without success.

The supplier counter person who accepted the return was slow to understand that such a thing could happen. . . sheesh. I wrote "Defective" on the box in black marker on four sides.
 
Has any one had trouble with the new self testing gfcis? Have had a few that trip during a self testing, then they lockout making the device useless. Short of replacing which i have done, I am little stumped. This has happened for both line and line/load applications.[Yes, Leviton SmartLocPro have had regular tripping issues. Have replaced with devices from another Leviton factory and from another mfg. Other mfg doesn't trip only the Leviton. Anyone else?]
 
Try another mfg, the Levitons might be the problem. Have had recurring trips on the Smart Loc but when replaced by another mfg product, no trips. Anyone else having issues with the Leviton Smart Locs?
 
TimothyF said:
Has any one had trouble with the new self testing gfcis? Have had a few that trip during a self testing, then they lockout making the device useless. Short of replacing which i have done, I am little stumped. This has happened for both line and line/load applications.[Yes, Leviton SmartLocPro have had regular tripping issues. Have replaced with devices from another Leviton factory and from another mfg. Other mfg doesn't trip only the Leviton. Anyone else?]
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Just to be clear when you mentioned "during a self testing" I get the feeling you were talking about during a manual test with the test button. The self testing that is part of the new listing standard is an automatic test that is pretty much constantly occurring whenever the unit is powered. It is not an active test of actual trip sequence (which is what the test button does) but rather a passive test of the condition of the electronic controls. I honestly do not know what the proper response per listing requirements is if said test fails though - I imagine it ultimately either locks the device out or gives some sort of warning of trouble.
 
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