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Service Conductors routed thru a panel

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
In the 2017 Code was there anything prohibiting one set of service conductors being routed thru one service panel to a second panel ??
In later Codes with 230.85 in place can that be done with feeders as long as the panel is marked ?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
The prohibition of service conductors being with other service conductors in the 2017 code only applies to raceways and cables.
230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable.
Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable in which the service conductors are installed.
Exception No. 1:
Grounding electrode conductors or supply side bonding jumpers or conductors shall be permitted within service raceways.
Exception No. 2:
Load management control conductors having overcurrent protection shall be permitted within service raceways.
The code does not prohibit feeder conductors from being in the same enclosure with service conductors.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
The prohibition of service conductors being with other service conductors in the 2017 code only applies to raceways and cables.

The code does not prohibit feeder conductors from being in the same enclosure with service conductors.
Thanks. That was the basic I had in mind when answering the question for a contractor but I wanted to make sure I had not overlooked something in the newer Codes with which I am not as familiar.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
The 2023 NEC extended the prohibition in 230.7 to also include "handhole enclosures" and "underground boxes".

Cheers, Wayne
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
The prohibition of service conductors being with other service conductors in the 2017 code only applies to raceways and cables.

The code does not prohibit feeder conductors from being in the same enclosure with service conductors.
How could other conductors be in the same cable as service conductors? In a raceway, I can see, but don't understand how they could be in the same cable.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
How could other conductors be in the same cable as service conductors? In a raceway, I can see, but don't understand how they could be in the same cable.
A cable with more than 3 conductors...no idea why someone would do that, but someone probably did and that is why we have the rule :D
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
A cable with more than 3 conductors...no idea why someone would do that, but someone probably did and that is why we have the rule :D
That's akin to the warning on sunshades in a car that says "remove from windshield before driving". Someone probably didn't remove it and crashed and sued!:p
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
On a Single Phase Service, If you take the twist out of the SE cable, you can share the Neutral, slip in (2) additional conductors between the outer sheath , (1) on either side of the existing conductors, and, use the cable as service conductors going in, and , feeder conductors coming out,,,,, just kidding,, :)

Jap>
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
On a Single Phase Service, If you take the twist out of the SE cable, you can share the Neutral, slip in (2) additional conductors between the outer sheath , (1) on either side of the existing conductors, and, use the cable as service conductors going in, and , feeder conductors coming out,,,,, just kidding,, :)
You can get SER with 4 insulated and one uninsulated, but that's still one conductor short, unless it's a 2-wire service.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Birken Vogt

Senior Member
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
You can get SER with 4 insulated and one uninsulated, but that's still one conductor short, unless it's a 2-wire service.

Cheers, Wayne
You could (wrongly) use 2 as the hot service conductors and the other 2 as the return from a disco/transfer switch/whatever. It could be a logical thing to do if not prohibited.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
You could (wrongly) use 2 as the hot service conductors and the other 2 as the return from a disco/transfer switch/whatever. It could be a logical thing to do if not prohibited.
Except that the grounded conductor must be run to the service disconnect, with the MBJ located there. So you also need a grounded conductor to the MBJ, and an EGC coming back.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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