Service conductors

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CCCI

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230.7 (NEC 2005)
Service conductors shall not be installed in the same raceway or service cable.
The question is may they share the same junction box and or gutter?
 
Perhaps this will give you some insight, it is from the NFPA 2008 Edition of the NEC Handbook:
All feeder and branch-circuit conductors must be separated from service conductors. Service conductors are not provided with overcurrent protection where they receive their supply; they are protected against overload conditions at their load end by the service disconnect fuses or circuit breakers. The amount of current that could be imposed on feeder or branch-circuit conductors, should they be in the same raceway and a fault occur, would be much higher than the ampacity of the feeder or branch-circuit conductors.
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Service -

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charlie said:
Perhaps this will give you some insight, it is from the NFPA 2008 Edition of the NEC Handbook:
All feeder and branch-circuit conductors must be separated from service conductors.
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Thank You, that makes it clear.
I knew the answer, I just didn't want to face it.
I can not use the boxes that are right there because they also have a branch circuit in it.
I'll have to start a new run.
 
charlie said:
Perhaps this will give you some insight, it is from the NFPA 2008 Edition of the NEC Handbook:
All feeder and branch-circuit conductors must be separated from service conductors.​
Click to expand...


The service conductors enter the main panel where all the branch circuits and feeders are. What am I missing?
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I'm with Dennis ,...If they can't occupy the same gutter then there are millions and millions of violations all over this great land. I also do not see where they cannot be in the same j- box should there be a splice in them
 
M. D. said:
I'm with Dennis ,...If they can't occupy the same gutter then there are millions and millions of violations all over this great land. I also do not see where they cannot be in the same j- box should there be a splice in them
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A wireway is a raceway. Take a look at the definition of raceway in Article 100.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
A wireway is a raceway. Take a look at the definition of raceway in Article 100.

Chris
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Im talking about the gutter space in the panel ,.. it is very common for service conductors to occupy the same gutter space as branch circuit conductors ....
 
raider1 said:
I never said a cabinet was a raceway, what I said was a wireway is a raceway.;)

Chris
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:D I never said that you said a panel was a raceway. :D I was just trying to agree with your point of a wireway being a raceway but Chalie's post stated
All feeder and branch-circuit conductors must be separated from service conductors.
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. This is why I brought up a panel not being a raceway and the panel can have service conductors with feeders and branch circuits. Sorry for the confusion.
 
raider1 said:
Can you show me the specific section in 366 that states an auxillary gutter is not a raceway?

Chris
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I think so,.. if the gutter is used to supplement
( Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole.)

the wiring space at the distribution center why would it not be able to function as that witch it is supplementing ??
 
M. D. said:
I think so,.. if the gutter is used to supplement
( Something added to complete a thing, make up for a deficiency, or extend or strengthen the whole.)

the wiring space at the distribution center why would it not be able to function as that witch it is supplementing ??
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Ok, so the auxiliary gutter is installed to supplement the wiring space at a cabinet, but that does not make the auxiliary a cabinet it is still a gutter.

The definition of auxiliary gutter in 366.2 tells us that a metallic auxiliary gutter is:

"A sheet metal enclosure used to supplement wiring spaces at meter centers, distribution centers, switchboards, and similar points of wiring systems. The enclosure has hinged or removable covers for housing and protecting electrical wires, cable, and busbars. The enclosure is designed for conductors to be laid or set in place after the enclosures have been installed as a complete system."

Here is the definition of a raceway:

"Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars, with additional functions as permitted in this Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways, cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways, wireways, and busways."

It seems that an auxiliary gutter sounds an awful lot like a raceway to me.

Chris
 
If we were to take a trip north of the border into Canada, you will see that they do not install service conductors with "other conductors", even in the panels. They have barriers in the panel enclosure to prevent mixing them.

In the US of A, we have this unwritten "blue law" (for lack of better term, but most likely you know what I mean) that we understand to allow us to perform the installations we have for so long.


Personnally I do not believe that we should permit the installation of service conductors in the same area of panels as we do, but I do not write the code.
In switchboards, we do not permit this...I wonder why?
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
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Personnally I do not believe that we should permit the installation of service conductors in the same area of panels as we do, but I do not write the code.
In switchboards, we do not permit this...I wonder why?
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I agree. I always thought it odd that we restrict service/non-service mix in a raceway then bring the service conductors into the panel, wrap them around 1/2 way around, weave the branch circuit conductors around them and not worry. Add to that the fact that 10% of the time, when I remove panel covers on the initial inspect, the service conductors has been "marked" and occasionly punctured by the cover screws.
A barrier restricting the conductors to their termination area would be a great plus.
 
CCCI said:
230.7 (NEC 2005)
Service conductors shall not be installed in the same raceway or service cable.
The question is may they share the same junction box and or gutter?
Click to expand...

The answer is yes, ..yes they may share the same gutter and or junction box unless someone can give an article prohibiting it .. I looked for the j- box prohibition and could not find it ? The gutter sharing is done every day thousands of times over
 
On ATS retro installs for back-to-back meter and panel setups, I have mounted the switch next to the meter with two raceways--one for SE conductors feeding switch and one for feeder from ATS to house panel back through meter and into existing hole to house panel. I have had only one inspector question the install calling the meter a shared raceway violation.
 
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