Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

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john h

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The situation is this. I have a four apartment, multi-family dwelling with individual main lug only panels in each apartment. Outside the building there is a four gang meter stack up feeding the apartments with no disconnects. Was it ever the case (circa 1960 or earlier) that this was an allowable treatment for the service, that is, to clear the service you had to go to each individual apartment to open all the breakers? Or did the Code always require a service disconnect outside the building at the stackup assembly?
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

from 1953 NEC:

Disconnecting Means
Art. 2351a. Switch and Circuit-Breaker

The disconnecting means shall be manually operable. It may consist of not more than 6 switches or six circuit-breakers in a common enclosure...located at a readily accessible point nearest to the entrance of the conductors, either inside or outside the building wall....no more than 6 operations of the hand.

b. Multiple-Occupancy
In a multiple occupancy building, each occupant shall have access to his disconnecting means.


Sounds like they required disconnecting means at the service entrance location.
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

Kind of scary ,this apartment building is full of MAINS.Service could be almost anything,sure not safe.Is there a chance it never was inspected ?
Some old towns never had inspectors till recent years,and some still might not.Do hope you suggest a repair.
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

1947 edition is inline with Dana's 53 reference. Section 2351(b)

Number of Disconnectors-Multiple Occupancy.

Last sentence says; the service disconnecting means shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers.

Roger
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

I`ve seen many services here in Florida,mmmmmm
1965 -70 era that are back to back MLO panels and no disconnect.Most were on upgrades 100 to 200 amp services,So that went away but I often wondered how did this pass ???
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

Your apartment building sounds as if it was never inspected! I've seen a couple of these over the years and discovered most were not inspected, or had the electrician sign an affidavit.
My brother's house in Texas (single family) has an FPE panel with no main ;) Last year he had a problem with the heat pump breaker. I was able to find one for him and he installed it, but was afraid of not being able to shut the panel off via main breaker. Some time in 2004 I'll be taking a road trip and we'll up date the panel and ground system. I think owners can take out their own permits.
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

Thanks everyone for your input, especially dana1028 and the 1953 Code extract. No, none of these panels were split bus and I will delve into the issue of whether or not this installation had been inspected. By the way, I happen to run across a copy of the 1913 National Electrical Code(!!)and it called for a sevice disconnect either outside or upon immediate entry into a building even back then. It did not contain a reference to the six disconnect rule but at least they had the disconnect in the right spot.
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

This is from the 1897 NEC. "There must be a main disconnecting switch installed at every building to disconnect all service wires, either underground or overhead, and that it be located in a readily accessible place as near as possible to the point where the wires enter the building. This disconnecting means must be arranged to cut off the entire current". Amazing that this requirement is basically unchanged after 100+ years.
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

Originally posted by electricman2:
This is from the 1897 NEC.
Click to expand...
WOW how old are you Electric man? :D

Seriously that reference is pretty cool, like you said basically unchanged. :cool:
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

Bob
Quote by iwire
WOW how old are you Electric man?
Click to expand...
Some days after crawling through attics, I feel 100+ :D but seriously the part I posted came from page 114 of the Feb. issue of EC magazine. So happens the article discussed 230.70
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

Reading the 1897 version closely, suggested to me that it intended neutrals to be switched along with hots.

I've never seen a "box stock" condition service from that era, so I can't really say how it was actually implemented.

Anyone worked on an original condition one from that era?
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

To Tonyi, I recently inspected a house built in 1917 that was in mint condition. Yes, they did switch neutrals on all circuits back in those days. Not sure what year the Code changed to disallow this but it must have been allowable in at least 1917.
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

hi this is sleepy, hurk27 sayes you can download old code books, i was looking for section 700 in the 1981 and 1987 codes. anyone know where i can download thoughs two sections. thank you
 
Re: Service disconnects for a four apartment dwelling

Sleepy the only year I have seen was the one I posted. as NFPA is very protective of their copy rights and don't post copy's of the NEC on-line.

[ February 19, 2004, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
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