service dissconnect

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steve.donovan2

Member
I'm going to be installing a 200 amp.service this weekend.My question is about if i need a disconnect. I was told no because the service entrance to the panel is about 8 feet and i can't find a definite answer in the code book.I'm living in Mass.
 
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wilsosa

Member
Location
New York
Re: service dissconnect

YES YOU DO NOT NEED A DISC BUT YOU CAN GO TOO FAR BECOUSE THEN YOU WOULD NEED ONE YOU SHOUL TRY TO GO AS CLOSE YOU CAN AFTER THE METER
 
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steve.donovan2

Member
Re: service dissconnect

the new panel is going to be about 6 feet from the service entrance or the meter socket.. so I'm good to go with out a disconnect.?
 
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steve.donovan2

Member
Re: service dissconnect

yes it has a 200 amp main breaker..at what footage from the meter socket would i need a disconnect??

[ September 11, 2003, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: steve.donovan2 ]
 
hornetd

hornetd

Senior Member
Location
Maryland
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician, Retired
Re: service dissconnect

Originally posted by steve.donovan2:
Yes it has a 200 amp main breaker..at what footage from the meter socket would i need a disconnect??
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the only reliable answer is the one inside of the head of the inspector who inspects your job. This is because the code language that requires the equipment to be located "nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors" is subject to varied interpretation. The inspectors in my area will allow not more than five linear feet between the point of entry of the conductors and the service equipment enclosure and ten wire feet between the point of entry and the service equipment enclosure. Your best bet is to ask your AHJ in advance.
--
Tom

230.70 General.
Means shall be provided to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service-entrance conductors.
(A) Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed in accordance with 230.70(A)(1), (2), and (3).
(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
 
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hillbilly

Senior Member
Re: service dissconnect

In my opinion, if the NEC is held in strict compliance, running even 5' of cable from the meter to the panel is not acceptable as it says all conductors entering the building are to be supplied with a disconnect from the service entrance (230-70) either outside or inside "NEAREST" the point of entrance, so that unprotected 5' of cable is part of it. Nearest to me means a straight shot thru the wall and into the panel. Anything else requires a disconnect at the meter.
 
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rickcham

Member
Re: service dissconnect

Steve

I have do a lot of work in Mass, Some inspectors will let you get by without having the disconnect at the meter,if withing 6 feet of the meter base in any direction. You should ask the AHJ on this. Also check the Mass Electrical code not the NEC for the reference.There is a difference on this.
Good luck
 
steve66

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
Re: service dissconnect

Hillbilly:

The handbook has a commentary on this that says "No maximum distance is specified from the point of entrance of service conductors to a readily accessible location for the installation of a service disconnecting means. The authority enforcing this Code has the responsibility for, and is charged with, making the decision as to how far inside the building the service-entrance conductors are allowed to travel to the main disconnecting means."

I don't think they ever ment "Nearest" to mean "zero" (correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is what you were saying). There are several exhibits in the handbook (Exhibit 230.15 for example) showing the service conductors stubbing up through the floor and running a couple of feet up the wall before getting to the disconnect.

Steve
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: service dissconnect

Does the service disconnect have to contain an overcurrent device? such as fuses or circuit breakers?
 
charlie b

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: service dissconnect

hornetd has the real right answer: talk to the AHJ. Each jurisdiction could have a different rule. Washington has a State Administrative Code that supplements (or at times, supercedes) the NEC. It includes a requirement that the first disconnect inside a building be no more than 15 feet from the point at which the cable enters the building. Note that a cable is not yet counted as being ?within the building,? if it is run in or under concrete.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: service dissconnect

Bennie,
Does the service disconnect have to contain an overcurrent device? such as fuses or circuit breakers?
Click to expand...
No, but if the service disconnect itself does not contain the OCPD, then 230.91 requires that the OCPD be "located immediately adjacent thereto".
Don
 
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steve.donovan2

Member
Re: service dissconnect

Thanks for the info guy, i checked with the inspector of the city ,he came out and took a look.He gave me the ok to go without a disconnect :D
 
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hillbilly

Senior Member
Re: service dissconnect

Steve66, I didn't say that I did it that way, only that it seems to me that that's what the code say's. If the meter and the panel are not on the same wall and within about 6 feet of each other, I'm putting a disconnect outside.
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: service dissconnect

Hillbilly: You appear to be modest in picking the handle Hillbilly. Most people associate the name with ignorance. I don't, I know some very intelligent hillbillies. You seem well informed.

Does an outside disconnect, that is not required, serve any purpose in elevating the quality of the service?
 
F

first class

Member
Re: service dissconnect

sounds to me like you should do two things #1, hire an electrican and #2 read article 230.70(1) the service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
 
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hillbilly

Senior Member
Re: service dissconnect

I don't know, it just helps me sleep better at night. Maybe I've worked around too many carpenters with high powered nail guns. I just don't like (although I know that it's been done this way forever) unprotected wiring inside a home. I've always looked at the code as a minimum requirement, so I go a little further on some things.
As far as the "Hillbilly" handle; I'm one of the seventh generation of my family (my sons and grandsons being the eight and ninth) that have lived in the same area of the North Georgia Mountains. We are Hillbillies, dumb or not depends on who you talk to.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: service dissconnect

Here is the change in the Mass Electrical Amendments.

2002 Mass Amendments
230.70(A)(1). Revise to read as follows:

(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service
disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside and attached to or within 3 m (10 ft) of the building or structure served, or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
Click to expand...
The change here does not apply to the question asked, the change here tells us an outside disconnect could not be located more 10 feet away.

By Bennie
Does an outside disconnect, that is not required, serve any purpose in elevating the quality of the service
Click to expand...
IMO yes, I agree with Hillbilly that unprotected service conductors inside the building are less than desirable.

I have about two feet of unprotected SE inside my house if what Hillbilly mentions (nail guns) do penetrate the SE what can we expect to happen?

Can we expect the POCO cutout to open or can we expect the SE to become airborne in a shower of melted metal?

It has been awhile since I did dwelling services in Mass but we would always try to stay 5 feet or less inside and never had any fail (for that).

I am in the process of doing my own service and I will ask the inspector some questions on what he thinks about the max distance. :)

[ September 13, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: service dissconnect

The most vulnerable component for failure is the meter base.

An overcurrent device as a switch, would make it necessary to connect the ground electrode conductor, ground/neutral, and an equipment ground at the service switch. Parallel paths for load and fault current is created from the panel to the main switch. This is no problem, but suggests a waste of material.

I hope the meter bases as we now know them will go away. CT metering, at the load center, should be the future. The only connections, of the service entrance conductors will be at the source and at the load center.

Reducing number of terminations is the best way to increase quality and safety of service conductors.
 
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