I just saw a pole service were they ran 2 in. pvc down pole with 4 4/0 to a meter can the grounded conductor ran outside of the conduit stapled to the pole looked like a 1/0(bare coper) the they penetrated the bottom of the meter can to bond it. The inspector says it is ok. I think they need a #4 to bond can and it has to be in raceway but he 2 in. is full. agree?
Service Drop
- Thread starter newt
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4-4/0 ? It sounds like a groundED conductor is already in the pipe and would be used to bond the meter, but, that leaves a question as to what purpose the 1/0 serves. It sounds more like a grounding elctrode conductor. Does it terminate at the can or does it also go to a grounding electrode ?
They ran 2 4/0 from tformer inthe conduit along with 2 4/0 going barn in one 2 inch pvc with no grounded conductor, that ran outside of pvc. The grounded conductor hit the meter can to bond it to system neutral and it hit a ground rod BUT it needs to be in condut and the conduit is full. The insp. is ok with it!
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Never mind
go ahead! say it !
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I was thinking 230.7 but I believe both sets of wires are service conductors so it does not apply.
You just want me to be wrong again.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I definitely would. Why was this done. Here is the problem. All those 4/0 cables (6) will not fit in a 2"PVC and then you must derate. I was assuming XHHW insulation.
my take:
Dennis,
according to Table 12, (4) 4/0 woud be legal in a 2" Sch 40.. right ?
but, as you pointed out, the derating would make it a 164 amp conductor.
I did not, however, see a service "size".
newt,
I don't know what to tell you. If you are the "inspector" you have Code violations to use as a rejection. If it's a 200 amp service, the derated wire is 164 amps. The grounded conductor is supposed to be run with the phase conductor. I don;t know if the meter needs the grounded conductor to operate. If not, the bond to the meter addresses bonding.
Considering where it is (outside, on a pole) the install is probably not "unsafe" as such IMHO, but it is not Code compliant.
From an inspectors standpoint, it should be rejected. Your profile says "utiliy".
and I',m a bit unsure what to tell you.
Dennis,
according to Table 12, (4) 4/0 woud be legal in a 2" Sch 40.. right ?
but, as you pointed out, the derating would make it a 164 amp conductor.
I did not, however, see a service "size".
newt,
I don't know what to tell you. If you are the "inspector" you have Code violations to use as a rejection. If it's a 200 amp service, the derated wire is 164 amps. The grounded conductor is supposed to be run with the phase conductor. I don;t know if the meter needs the grounded conductor to operate. If not, the bond to the meter addresses bonding.
Considering where it is (outside, on a pole) the install is probably not "unsafe" as such IMHO, but it is not Code compliant.
From an inspectors standpoint, it should be rejected. Your profile says "utiliy".
and I',m a bit unsure what to tell you.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Gus wouldn't there be 6 - 4/0 conductors in the conduit if the neutrals were installed the way it should be? 6- 4/0 will not work in 2" PVC. I am using Table 4, Chapter 9. What does Table 12 have to do with this.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Agreed. One thing is why would a #4 need to be in the pipe? Is this a GEC?
The meter can is bonded thru the grounded conductor.
wow ..we are both on different trains I meant to say Table 9..(my mind did) but I was ass-u-ming Sch 40 PVC. And yes, if it was installed as it should be, 6 definitelty wouldn't fit.
Not challanging you, by the way, just didn't see it the same way.
That does bring up another question in my mind. If we have conductors in the conduit that are on the line & load side of the meter do we really need the grounded condctor. It seems a violation of 300.3 but..............????
And if we do install the grounded conductor, do we need two ? Apparently the "load" neutral is tied to the "line" at the weatherhead.
Is this a problem ??
I meant to say Table 9..(my mind did) but I was ass-u-ming Sch 40 PVC. And yes, if it was installed as it should be, 6 definitelty wouldn't fit.Not challanging you, by the way, just didn't see it the same way.
That does bring up another question in my mind. If we have conductors in the conduit that are on the line & load side of the meter do we really need the grounded condctor. It seems a violation of 300.3 but..............????
And if we do install the grounded conductor, do we need two ? Apparently the "load" neutral is tied to the "line" at the weatherhead.
Is this a problem ??
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I need challenging but I did not take it that way. :smile:
You make a good point but I am not sure 3oo.3 applies. Think of a SP switch. Do we need to run the neutral into it. No. The meter is nothing more than a switch of sorts.
I have no idea if that is legal but it would appear the neutral would not need to go to the meter as the meter does not utilize the grounded conductor except to bond the can.
I'd like to hear others take on this.
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