Service Entrance Help Needed

[wvelectrician67]

Where are you seeing that information? Every manufacturer uses their standard breakers in their multi position metering assemblies. It's perfectly fine, as long as the AIC rating is appropriate.

Check the columns that contain the information. When you read the header information it tells you that most of them are able to be placed in any spot but to keep within the UL classification and standard it can only be used in the position designated in that paperwork even though it's "only for informational purposes". Type QP only shows in branch circuit positions - never in the main, and in the fine print at the bottom you will see that it makes particular note to mention that the HQPPH and like are a "special type used in metering". That designation is not there for nothing. Our trade often relies upon interpretation and I acknowledge that but when the manufacturer says that they manufactured something for a special application I can only interpret that anything else manufactured to work there would receive the exact same designation. Type QP does not have that distinction nor does it appear in the column that specifies line side mains or metering. To me it's clear. You see different? How?

 

[electrofelon]

Check the columns that contain the information. When you read the header information it tells you that most of them are able to be placed in any spot but to keep within the UL classification and standard it can only be used in the position designated in that paperwork even though it's "only for informational purposes". Type QP only shows in branch circuit positions - never in the main, and in the fine print at the bottom you will see that it makes particular note to mention that the HQPPH and like are a "special type used in metering". That designation is not there for nothing. Our trade often relies upon interpretation and I acknowledge that but when the manufacturer says that they manufactured something for a special application I can only interpret that anything else manufactured to work there would receive the exact same designation. Type QP does not have that distinction nor does it appear in the column that specifies line side mains or metering. To me it's clear. You see different? How?

I am confused. Which document are you referencing? I do not see anything that you are quoting in any of the documents you linked.

And perhaps I should be clear about what I am saying and what i am not saying. What I am saying is that in general there is nothing special about a "metering application breaker" or whatever. All the manufacturers use regular breakers as the 100A or less feeder disconnects in their meter assemblies. They might be higher than 10kaic, but it's going to be what you spec and order. The breaker you are referring to is a 4 pole breaker - basically two poles factory paralleled to make up to a 200A breaker. If you were to replace that 4 pole with a double pole there may be two issues: the physical mounting of it, and 110.3 manufacturer's instructions if they specify a certain frame or type of breaker - but still that is not because there is some different duty classification or anything.

 

[wvelectrician67]

My apologies, I did not know that you didn't see the information that I posted earlier. Please give me 5 and will post here again

 

[wvelectrician67]

See if you can see this

 

[electrofelon]

See if you can see this

Yeah that I saw, the series rating charts. They show QPH as a main. The QPH is a 22kaic. The reason they don't show a regular QP as a main is because it's only 10k and there would be no series rating. That document is about series ratings, nothing else - it doesn't say you can't use a QP as a main.

 

[kwired]

I still think you are looking at this the wrong way, maybe even AHJ you have mentioned is as well. You are not very likely to even need more than a 22-25kA rated breaker as the main. You would need one heck of a supply transformer and have very short run of conductors to it to even have over that level of current available. I really doubt your existing main breaker was 100kAIC rated, there has to be some misunderstanding on what you are seeing on that. 42kAIC rating isn't even all that likely on 120/240 single phase, you just don't run into a transformer that can put that much fault current out, even right at the output terminals, hardly ever.

Where are you going to run into 42kA+ IC rating needed? Industrial, heavy commercial, with transformers of at least 1000 kVA but even then, length and size of conductor between source and the switch/breaker in question will potentially knock down the available fault current at the switch vs at transformer secondary terminals. Get over 50 feet or so of conductor and it likely is low enough 25kA devices are suitable.

 

[Knightryder12]

In the 20+ years of electrical design for commercial and industrial facilities, I have only seen one project that was over a 65K AIC and even that was only a 100K AIC. I really find it hard to believe, that in any residential application, that you would have anything over the 22-25K AIC rating that others have stated.