Here's one, I installed a new 400 amp service entrance at a location approx. 50' from a proposed home site. Complete with 2- 200 amp disconnects and a 400 amp meter socket. Now I want to feed the new home with a 200 amp feeder, but my electrical inspector says I need to put my load center "at the first point of entry", (in the first stud bay). Does the code allow for me to run that feeder beyond the "point of entry" because the code restrictions are different on a feeder line than a service entrance?
service entrance or feeder line?
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bphgravity
Senior Member
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- Florida
Re: service entrance or feeder line?
You may be dealing with a more conservative local code, however I believe your inspector is refering to Section 225.32 of the NEC 2002.
If your loadcenter is the location of the required disconnect(s) as specified in 225.33(A), then it would be up to the AHJ to determine what "nearest the point of entrance" means.
You may be dealing with a more conservative local code, however I believe your inspector is refering to Section 225.32 of the NEC 2002.
If your loadcenter is the location of the required disconnect(s) as specified in 225.33(A), then it would be up to the AHJ to determine what "nearest the point of entrance" means.
bonding jumper
Senior Member
Re: service entrance or feeder line?
Why don't you put a service disconnect in the first stud bay where he wants your load center, then put the load center wherever you like.
PS, not sure if I understand the first statement, when you say 400A service entrance, is that a 400A service disconnect switch? or just a end line box.
[ January 11, 2005, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: bonding jumper ]
Why don't you put a service disconnect in the first stud bay where he wants your load center, then put the load center wherever you like.
PS, not sure if I understand the first statement, when you say 400A service entrance, is that a 400A service disconnect switch? or just a end line box.
[ January 11, 2005, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: bonding jumper ]
Re: service entrance or feeder line?
It is my opinion (which means nothing) that if you have a 400A meter and 2 200A disconnects, and you are utilizing one of the 200A disconnects for the building feed, that your first means of disconnect is located outside of the building (230-70 A-1 or 225.32) and you should be able to run inside the structure beyond the point of entrance. These conductors are protected by the disconnect, Which is why the rule exists (I think) to limit the length that an unprotected service conductor travels through the building. This should be no different than installing a disconnect after the meter on the exterior of the building and running anywhere you want to inside the building to install the panel.
Oh ya your 200A disconnect is fused isn't it?
Edited due to thought
UNLESS the AHJ is considering the building a separate building or structure, then 225.32 would require the disconnect as he stated!!
[ January 11, 2005, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: guesseral ]
It is my opinion (which means nothing) that if you have a 400A meter and 2 200A disconnects, and you are utilizing one of the 200A disconnects for the building feed, that your first means of disconnect is located outside of the building (230-70 A-1 or 225.32) and you should be able to run inside the structure beyond the point of entrance. These conductors are protected by the disconnect, Which is why the rule exists (I think) to limit the length that an unprotected service conductor travels through the building. This should be no different than installing a disconnect after the meter on the exterior of the building and running anywhere you want to inside the building to install the panel.
Oh ya your 200A disconnect is fused isn't it?
Edited due to thought
UNLESS the AHJ is considering the building a separate building or structure, then 225.32 would require the disconnect as he stated!!
[ January 11, 2005, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: guesseral ]
Re: service entrance or feeder line?
Thank you for the replys
My main service comes into a 400 amp meter socket box. Then we attached a 4' gutter trough box to the side of the meter box into which we pulled in the conductors. Attached to the top of the gutter trough box, we installed two individual 200 amp boxes with fused disconnects. The idea was, one 200 amp feed dedicated for the new house, one dedicated for other out buildings, (shop, barn, well house). All is rain tite equip. and grounded at the location. My original question to the inspector was, At the point of entry to the house,(with one 200 amp Feed), can I run just a Jacketed 200 amp feeder to the location of my load center, (which also has a 200 amp main lug)? His response was , only if it is run under concrete. My electrician (who is well versed in the NEC) said this application is no diffrent than any other situation when you have service drops with meters and disconnects on the outside of a structure and load centers at remote locations, i.e. apartment complexs. I really don't want to argue or make a big deal out of this, I just want to learn what the best way is to do this is and next time avoid any "interpretation of code". Thanks again for your corporate wisdom.
Thank you for the replys
My main service comes into a 400 amp meter socket box. Then we attached a 4' gutter trough box to the side of the meter box into which we pulled in the conductors. Attached to the top of the gutter trough box, we installed two individual 200 amp boxes with fused disconnects. The idea was, one 200 amp feed dedicated for the new house, one dedicated for other out buildings, (shop, barn, well house). All is rain tite equip. and grounded at the location. My original question to the inspector was, At the point of entry to the house,(with one 200 amp Feed), can I run just a Jacketed 200 amp feeder to the location of my load center, (which also has a 200 amp main lug)? His response was , only if it is run under concrete. My electrician (who is well versed in the NEC) said this application is no diffrent than any other situation when you have service drops with meters and disconnects on the outside of a structure and load centers at remote locations, i.e. apartment complexs. I really don't want to argue or make a big deal out of this, I just want to learn what the best way is to do this is and next time avoid any "interpretation of code". Thanks again for your corporate wisdom.
- Location
- Illinois
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- retired electrician
Re: service entrance or feeder line?
Don
No, unless you can meet one of the exceptions to 225.32.
The code wording does not specify how far outside of the building that the disconnect can be located, but I think that the intent is that the disconnect be on the building. There was a proposal in the last code cycle to permit the service disconnect to be up to 50' from the building, but that proposal was rejected.
Don
Re: service entrance or feeder line?
Per your discription of the service I think the inspector is considdering this as a feeder and using 225.30. At that point the service is a structure (look at 100 definitions) and the house the building. With that senario you would require a disconnection means at the nearest point of entry, and if it is a panel it would require a main breaker. This would be different than having a disconnect by the meter on the exterior of the building because you have 2 different structures or buildings and one feeds the other. It would not be considered one building. I hope I worded this properly.
Basically if you have a service in a building and you feed another building from that service the second building panel is treated as a service panel, with a main breaker and at the closest point of entry. There are also grounding requirements in 250.32D. The reason your service would fit this senario is because the remote located service could be (is) considered a structure and that structure is feeding a building.
I hope I worded that correctly to it seems like I maybe being confusing. :roll:
Per your discription of the service I think the inspector is considdering this as a feeder and using 225.30. At that point the service is a structure (look at 100 definitions) and the house the building. With that senario you would require a disconnection means at the nearest point of entry, and if it is a panel it would require a main breaker. This would be different than having a disconnect by the meter on the exterior of the building because you have 2 different structures or buildings and one feeds the other. It would not be considered one building. I hope I worded this properly.
Basically if you have a service in a building and you feed another building from that service the second building panel is treated as a service panel, with a main breaker and at the closest point of entry. There are also grounding requirements in 250.32D. The reason your service would fit this senario is because the remote located service could be (is) considered a structure and that structure is feeding a building.
I hope I worded that correctly to it seems like I maybe being confusing. :roll:
Re: service entrance or feeder line?
Thank you so much
I think I understand the reasoning behind the inspectors' statements. Thankfully I asked him prior to the work being done. Now with that ironed out, it's just down to the economics involved,(should I provide an additional disconnect At the point of entry so that I can place the load center in a more central location, or just install the load center ,w/ disconnect, at the point of entry and thus increase the length of all the home runs). Well at this point, I think I can figure it out.
Thank you very much, it has been very helpful.
Thank you so much
I think I understand the reasoning behind the inspectors' statements. Thankfully I asked him prior to the work being done. Now with that ironed out, it's just down to the economics involved,(should I provide an additional disconnect At the point of entry so that I can place the load center in a more central location, or just install the load center ,w/ disconnect, at the point of entry and thus increase the length of all the home runs). Well at this point, I think I can figure it out.
Thank you very much, it has been very helpful.
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