service entrance question

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powerguy

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I am unclear on the code as it covers service entrance conductors in conduit. During a service upgrade at a residence my employer had me install a 200 amp panel with a generator interlock on the main breaker and a 50 amp standby breaker as well. However we ran the conductors thru the entrance conduit back to the garage and added a cord with a generator plug on the end. this was installed on the back of the metercan in the garage. I questioned the instalation and I belive that there is a violation here but I cannot find it in my codebook. My employer claims that due to the fact that the meter has a disconnect built in than the conduit used for the service conductors can also be used for the other conductoras well. A little bit guidence for a hard working apprentice would be helpfull
 
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Is there overcurrent protection in the meter base as well as a disconnect? If so then the conductors between the meter base and the distribution panel will not be service conductors, they would be a feeder. Of course then the grounds and neutrals in the distribution panel would need to be seperated as this would now be a sub-panel.
 
service

service

Yes there is a 200 amp breaker in the milbank meterbase. This is what confuses me. Is it a feeder or a service. I smell a violation but my boss says no!
 
The meter base is your "service disconnect". That makes the conductors between the disconnect and the distribution panel a feeder. Other conductors may be installed in a conduit with a feeder, however your feeder must include a neutral and a grounding conductor and the grounds and neutrals in the distribution panel (sub-panel) must be seperated.
 
service

service

I guess I still have a lot to learn. Can the feeders to the transfer switch go right thru the bottom of the meter\disconect and then to a weatherproof inlet box? I did run all 4 wires and made sure that the plug was rated for 30 amps. all of my work was performed in a "neat and workmanship like manner "too.
 
service

service

Originaly the customer had three 2\0 aluminium feeders run in conduit from the meter\disconect to the panel in the basement. we simply replaced the panel with a square D panel with the generator\ breaker interconect. we ran the 4 \6awg thhn conductors up to the meter disconect and put a generator plug under the meter can. I thought it was a little bit odd but the new guy should keep his mouth shut and work hard
 
stickboy1375 said:
I don't understand why two conduits were not installed... Were the wires derated now that you have more than 3 current carrying conductors?
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Isn't the use of the service feeder or the generator cable mutually exclusive? If so, you shouldn't have to derate as one set will never be current carrying.
 
service

service

Much to my supprise the inspector DID sign off and pass this job....oh well guess I have to hit the books
 
powerguy said:
Originaly the customer had three 2\0 aluminium feeders run in conduit from the meter\disconect to the panel in the basement. we simply replaced the panel with a square D panel with the generator\ breaker interconect. we ran the 4 \6awg thhn conductors up to the meter disconect and put a generator plug under the meter can. I thought it was a little bit odd but the new guy should keep his mouth shut and work hard
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That still doesn't sound right to me.
Do the POCO service conductors and the generator supply conductors both land in the meter disconnect?
steve
 
If the generator conductors are running in the same conduit as the "feeder" conductors, and coming out into the meter box, it may not be a code violation, but it might violate the utility standards. Most do not want other wires in their meter box.

Has the utility come to hook up power and set the meter yet?
 
suemarkp said:
Isn't the use of the service feeder or the generator cable mutually exclusive? If so, you shouldn't have to derate as one set will never be current carrying.
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That makes sense but IMO there is no such relief to derating conductors.
 
IMO the new guy, the old guy, the apprentice, the helper or the most expierenced electrician in the company should always question something he/she are unsure of. If it is an improper installation it will be corrected, if it is proper you will have learned something.

The old adage "The only stupid question is the one not asked" or something like that.
 
iwire said:
That makes sense but IMO there is no such relief to derating conductors.
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I agree, by strict interpretation of the code. But what triggered that was what I thought was a Mike Holt newsletter regarding derating and 3-way switch travelers. To me, two travelers should only count as one current carrying conductor because you can only ever use one at a time. But the code doesn't specify that as an exception.

I thought perhaps logic set in and someone realized that mutual exclusion should be applied to whether a conductor is current carrying. I can't answer that, nor do I see a definition of current carrying conductor.
 
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