Service Entrance
- Thread starter tech25
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Welcome to the forum. If you have service entrance conductors between the meter and both panels then yes the neutral would be bonded in both. This would mean that there is no OCPD between the meter and the panels, and each panel had it own main OCPD.
Bonding takes place at the first point of disconnect, for example, if your meter had breakers that would be your bonding point (even though the meter gets bonded anyway) but in that scenario, neutrals and grounds would be separated in the panels. Sounds like that meter has a 100A and 200A breaker in the meter panel, so that's your bonding point, and not in the panels. You would need a 4-wire to the panels, but I've seen it done by driving two ground rods near the panel just for equipment grounding and only running 3-wire from the meter.
Last edited:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Bill W said:
I did not see any mention of a 'meter panel'.
I see this as simply a two gang meter socket supplying two main breaker panels.
If I am correct in that assumption I agree with Trevor, both panels will need to be bonded.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
iwire said:
Maybe i am reading it wrong but he said THE METER so i am thinking only one meter but 2 panels.In that case i would say bond at both panels.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Jim W in Tampa said:
Good point, I agree.
77401
Banned
I agree with Trevor
This is a typical install down south for a larger residence.
Not trying to read anything into the OP but 200 amp Meter outside into a gutter. Directly inside are the 2 Main breaker panels. Bond each panel, echa panel has a seperate EGC to the Ground rod
This is a typical install down south for a larger residence.
Not trying to read anything into the OP but 200 amp Meter outside into a gutter. Directly inside are the 2 Main breaker panels. Bond each panel, echa panel has a seperate EGC to the Ground rod
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
77401 said:
Here the poco would want the ground rod/rods to go to the meter.Grounds rods to each panel would cause a parallel nuetral
bikeindy
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis IN
Jim W in Tampa said:
Here you better keep that grounding conductor away from that meter or you will never get hooked up.
Bikeindy, I know this is nothing you have control over, but the "can't ground inside meter" mentality by those who make this rule, is pure B.S.
Jim is absolutely right, why would we want to create a parallel path unnecessarily even if Soars and the NEC say it is alright to do so?
Roger
Jim is absolutely right, why would we want to create a parallel path unnecessarily even if Soars and the NEC say it is alright to do so?
Roger
That's close to correct, but a single ground rod is only a supplemental ground. (Gotta stop leaving my code book at work!) A single ground rod must be supplemeted by another ground rod at least six feet away unless you also have 10' or more of underground metal water pipe, ufer ground, building steel, (not in that order of preference.) Does you local utility also require grounding of the meter socket? Here they do. The utility sees that as a piece of equipment, and they want it grounded.tech25 said:
77401
Banned
Bill W said:
This might come to a shock to those of you that are up north. But down here the water meter is out front 10' away from the curb burried about a foot in a plastic box.
So to answer you Q.....Nope
allenwayne
Senior Member
It amazes me that we as electricians are required to follow the NEC but the pocos have individual requirements.Here as jim stated we attach the ground wire inside the meter can.Thats it inside only,but go elsewhere it is ok to do it within the panel.The pocos have no inspection here ,for the most part they sub the work out and that is not inspected(scary huh).But the internal wiring of a home is scrutinized .The pocos should IMHO have to be inspected just like the EC`s work has to be.bikeindy said:
I`ve seen underground direct burial cable less than 12 ins below grade.How?? the landscape contractor hit them when they planted a tree.I also saw at the end of a project a trans. and pad almost 24 in above grade and all the underground washed out by summer rains and the trans fell in a ditch that water created.A call to the electrical dept fell on deaf ears since it was a poco issue.What makes them impervious to accountability???
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
tech25 said:
Yes and then the 2 panels are now sub panes and 4 wires needed and seperate nuetral and grounds.First means of disconnect.
Service Grounding
Service Grounding
250.24(A)(1): The connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means.
Accessible means that the grounding and bonding point cannot be inside of metering equipment unless the utility has a procedure for obtaining permission to break a meter seal for maintenance purposes. However, some utilities are requiring a dedicated supplemental electrode for the meter socket in order to help out the lightning arrestors in electronic meters. This can be a particular issue if there is steel conduit or wireways between the meter and the service switch.
This means that the bond between neutral and equipment ground and the grounding electrodes can be at the weatherhead and separate equipment grounds run from there to the service equipment. Duquesne Light Company requires this method for 2-wire 120 volt services for signs and so forth so that they can install a form 2s meter with 1 of the current coils in the neutral.
250.24(A)(3) allows the grounding point to be downstream of the service switch for double ended services which could also be a service plus cogeneration. In this case the grounding and bonding point is at the tie switch. Everything upstream of the tie breaker or cogeneration transfer switch needs to have separate neutral and equipment grounding conductors.
250.24(A)(4) allows separate neutral and equipment grounding buses at the grounding and bonding point. 2 applications are source return ground fault protection which monitors the current in the jumper from neutral to ground or to make a main breaker panel wireable as either a service panel or a subpanel which can occur when remodeling or upgrading a service.
I have also seen a single phase service where Cleveland Public Power ran separate neutral and equipment grounding conductors from the transformer to the service switch. This was for a corrosive area where all of the grounding electrodes needed to be located at Cleveland Public Power's pole so that the electrodes would be in a noncorrosive area. The combination of ammonia, sodium chloride, water, and oxygen eats all useful metals except indium and bismuth creating a 90.4 exception situation.
Service Grounding
250.24(A)(1): The connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means.
Accessible means that the grounding and bonding point cannot be inside of metering equipment unless the utility has a procedure for obtaining permission to break a meter seal for maintenance purposes. However, some utilities are requiring a dedicated supplemental electrode for the meter socket in order to help out the lightning arrestors in electronic meters. This can be a particular issue if there is steel conduit or wireways between the meter and the service switch.
This means that the bond between neutral and equipment ground and the grounding electrodes can be at the weatherhead and separate equipment grounds run from there to the service equipment. Duquesne Light Company requires this method for 2-wire 120 volt services for signs and so forth so that they can install a form 2s meter with 1 of the current coils in the neutral.
250.24(A)(3) allows the grounding point to be downstream of the service switch for double ended services which could also be a service plus cogeneration. In this case the grounding and bonding point is at the tie switch. Everything upstream of the tie breaker or cogeneration transfer switch needs to have separate neutral and equipment grounding conductors.
250.24(A)(4) allows separate neutral and equipment grounding buses at the grounding and bonding point. 2 applications are source return ground fault protection which monitors the current in the jumper from neutral to ground or to make a main breaker panel wireable as either a service panel or a subpanel which can occur when remodeling or upgrading a service.
I have also seen a single phase service where Cleveland Public Power ran separate neutral and equipment grounding conductors from the transformer to the service switch. This was for a corrosive area where all of the grounding electrodes needed to be located at Cleveland Public Power's pole so that the electrodes would be in a noncorrosive area. The combination of ammonia, sodium chloride, water, and oxygen eats all useful metals except indium and bismuth creating a 90.4 exception situation.
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