Service grounding in texas- No ground rod - HELP

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MPdesign

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I am looking at apartment buildings in Dallas Texas and there is no ground rod.

I believe the ground is derived from the utility service?

The ground appears to be derived from the utility. From that location, it travels to -and is bonded to - the water service.

There is no ground rod. They have been in service since 1985 and do not have issues with lightning.

Is this legal? I assume that it is because there is no way that all these could have slipped by - but I would like the opinion of others wiser than I on Texas.
 
Is there any other grounding electrodes?

A water line electrode must be supplemented, but building steel or a concrete encase electrode would do the job and a rod would not be necessary.

A ground rod is generally the most common electrode used when nothing else is available.
 
MPdesign said:
I am looking at apartment buildings in Dallas Texas and there is no ground rod.

I believe the ground is derived from the utility service?

The ground appears to be derived from the utility. From that location, it travels to -and is bonded to - the water service.

There is no ground rod. They have been in service since 1985 and do not have issues with lightning.

Is this legal? I assume that it is because there is no way that all these could have slipped by - but I would like the opinion of others wiser than I on Texas.
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I believe at that time ground rod were not required as long as the water service was copper,I may be wrong but I think the suplimantal ground rods were added in the late 80's early 90's.
 
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Each apartment building has about 20 services, all bonded to a single copper pipe. No supplemental ground rod a that location.
 
LEO2854 said:
I believe at that time ground rod were not required as long as the water service was copper,I may be wrong but I think the suplimantal ground rods were added in the late 80's early 90's.
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Could be, I have noticed a lot of older installs where there is a water pipe ground but no ground rods or other electrodes. But for the most part there was no inspections of those installations either so I feel it was a little luck that they knew enough to install a GEC to the water pipe.
 
This is in Dallas in over 400 apartments built over 2 years... I am sure they were inspected.

Is the addition of a grounding triad recommended?
 
kwired said:
Could be, I have noticed a lot of older installs where there is a water pipe ground but no ground rods or other electrodes. But for the most part there was no inspections of those installations either so I feel it was a little luck that they knew enough to install a GEC to the water pipe.
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From the 1987 NEC, Article 250-26 (c) Grounding Electrode .The grounding electrode conductor shall be as near as practicable to and preferably in the same area as the grounding conductor connection to the system. The grounding electrode shall be: (1) the nearest available effectively grounded structural metal member of the structure;or(2) the nearest available effectively grounded water metal pipe; or (3)other electrodes as specified by Sections 250-81 and 250-83 where electrodes specified by (1) or (2) above are not available.
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That was fun typing all that out...:lol:
 
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On an aside, in many areas of Texas like this, the fire alarm systems have a ridiculous amount of trouble with lightning. Every thunderstorm causes apartment fire panels to fail. This facility just happens to be 2 and not 3 story - so no fire alarm panels are needed.

Now that I have seen this, I believe that this is part of the cause.
 
250-26(c) is not the correct code citation for this question. You need to look to 250-81(a). I am not going to type the whole thing, but that last part reads.
250-81(a) ... A metal underground water pipe shall be supplemented by an additional electrode of a type specified in Section 250-81 or in Section 250-83
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That is from the 1978 code.
 
MPdesign said:
I am looking at apartment buildings in Dallas Texas and there is no ground rod.

I believe the ground is derived from the utility service?

The ground appears to be derived from the utility. From that location, it travels to -and is bonded to - the water service.

There is no ground rod. They have been in service since 1985 and do not have issues with lightning.

Is this legal? I assume that it is because there is no way that all these could have slipped by - but I would like the opinion of others wiser than I on Texas.
Click to expand...


Back in the good old days they used to make water pipe out of a substance called metal (believe it or not).

What is important is the pipe comming in from the water main ( mains were also metal in those days). If you have 20 ft or more of this metal ( steel or copper ) water pipe this was considered sufficient as a grounding electrode.

The problem started to occur when this metal water pipe was replaced with PVC. Supplimental ground rods were required.

If the metal water pipe still exist and has not been replaced with PVC (underground ) and the water meter and pressure reduction valves have not been replaced or were properly jumpered (bonded) then you would still have a good grounding electrode system.

There are sill lots of buildings here with no ground rods.
 
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don_resqcapt19 said:
250-26(c) is not the correct code citation for this question. You need to look to 250-81(a). I am not going to type the whole thing, but that last part reads.
That is from the 1978 code.
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Then you have to check with the jurisdiction to see what year they actually adopted the 1978 code.


Here it should have been around 1979 but in other places it could have been later than 1985.
 
growler said:
Then you have to check with the jurisdiction to see what year they actually adopted the 1978 code.


Here it should have been around 1979 but in other places it could have been later than 1985.
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It appears that 1978 was the first time the code required the supplemental grounding electrode for a water pipe grounding electrode. Previous codes say the a supplemental grounding electrode was required if there was "some likelihood" that the water pipe would become isolated by the use of non-metallic fittings.
 
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