Service Panel

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DENN M.

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I'm trying to give my input on the design portion of a job where the existing service panel will be used as a sub panel fed by the new service that is going to be installed. I'm trying to convince the customer to replace that panel with a comparable load center, so we can get it ordered with the rest of the equipment, but the engineer has talked him into keeping it. As far as I know, a UL listed service panel cannot be used as a sub panel even if you remove the bonding jumper. I've been written a correction on this before. Any thoughts or input on this subject.......?

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DENN M. said:
I'm trying to give my input on the design portion of a job where the existing service panel will be used as a sub panel fed by the new service that is going to be installed. I'm trying to convince the customer to replace that panel with a comparable load center, so we can get it ordered with the rest of the equipment, but the engineer has talked him into keeping it. As far as I know, a UL listed service panel cannot be used as a sub panel even if you remove the bonding jumper. I've been written a correction on this before. Any thoughts or input on this subject.......?

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I've never heard of such a thing..... If you remove the bond and separate the grounds and neutrals what is there to kick about?
 
It's UL listed as a service panel and can only be used for that purpose. .......at least that's what the correction was for. This new job is in the same city and under the jurisdiction of the same inspector, so I'm trying to help the customer avoid the hassle. The engineer insists that it won't be an issue. ........

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DENN M. said:
It's UL listed as a service panel and can only be used for that purpose. .......at least that's what the correction was for. This new job is in the same city and under the jurisdiction of the same inspector, so I'm trying to help the customer avoid the hassle. The engineer insists that it won't be an issue. ........

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Does it have two neutral bars tied together with an un-insulated strap across the back of the panel?
Cause I can see that. Some panels are listed that way.
You could take that un-insulated strap out and use 1 bar for the neutrals and one for the grounds but removing that strap will void the UL listing and obviously your inspector knows that.
 
DENN M. said:
I'm trying to give my input on the design portion of a job where the existing service panel will be used as a sub panel fed by the new service that is going to be installed. I'm trying to convince the customer to replace that panel with a comparable load center, so we can get it ordered with the rest of the equipment, but the engineer has talked him into keeping it. As far as I know, a UL listed service panel cannot be used as a sub panel even if you remove the bonding jumper. I've been written a correction on this before. Any thoughts or input on this subject.......?

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As long as the listing is "suitable for use as service equipment" and not "suitable for use only as service equipment" you can remove the main bonding jumper and use the panel as a sub-panel.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
As long as the listing is "suitable for use as service equipment" and not "suitable for use only as service equipment" you can remove the main bonding jumper and use the panel as a sub-panel.
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That's good to know. .......this particular piece of equipment is probably more than 40 years old, so I will have to see what kind of info I can get on it. Thanks

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I agree with others as long as the main bonding jumper is removed you are ok. If however there is no insulated neutral bar an bar present is bolted or riveted to the enclosure then you will need to replace the panel. That is unless the inspector allows a field installed insulated neutral bar.
 
qcroanoke said:
Does it have two neutral bars tied together with an un-insulated strap across the back of the panel?
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It's hard to tell from the pictures I've been sent. I haven't been able to examine it in person yet. They're trying to push this forward before I have a chance to. It's at least 40 years old.......

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DENN M. said:
That's good to know. .......this particular piece of equipment is probably more than 40 years old, so I will have to see what kind of info I can get on it. Thanks

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If the neutral bar is isolated from the enclosure and only connected to the enclosure by the main bonding jumper it was listed as "suitable for use as service equipment". If the neutral bar is directly attached to the enclosure it was listed as "suitable only for use as service equipment".
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
If the neutral bar is isolated from the enclosure and only connected to the enclosure by the main bonding jumper it was listed as "suitable for use as service equipment". If the neutral bar is directly attached to the enclosure it was listed as "suitable only for use as service equipment".
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That makes sense and falls right in line with the previous issue I had. I will have to examine this equipment and see how it's attached. Thank you.

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don_resqcapt19 said:
As long as the listing is "suitable for use as service equipment" and not "suitable for use only as service equipment" you can remove the main bonding jumper and use the panel as a sub-panel.
Click to expand...

I seem to recall there were different color labels (I do know 'for use as' are green).
 
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