websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
These photos were taken at the County Fair Grounds. I wonder how long ago that this was an approved installation!
Service Side-Entrance?
- Thread starter websparky
- Start date
- Status
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
Wow! At least they made sure the GEC for the single phase was making contact with the metal siding so someone leaning against the building could make good contact with the ground when they reach up and touch the service drop.
Maybe I?m ranting that is most likely T-11 wood siding. Did you bring this to the attention of the fairground authorities. They have to know about this, at least if you bring it up they will beware someone knows of their negligence.
[ August 09, 2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: david ]
Wow! At least they made sure the GEC for the single phase was making contact with the metal siding so someone leaning against the building could make good contact with the ground when they reach up and touch the service drop.
Maybe I?m ranting that is most likely T-11 wood siding. Did you bring this to the attention of the fairground authorities. They have to know about this, at least if you bring it up they will beware someone knows of their negligence.
[ August 09, 2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: david ]
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
When you are dealing with the county or state fairgrounds, many times the AHJ is told to look the other way. The electric utility will normally just hook it up since there are government people talking to our board members and/or upper management.
When you are dealing with the county or state fairgrounds, many times the AHJ is told to look the other way. The electric utility will normally just hook it up since there are government people talking to our board members and/or upper management.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
You guys are so picky, this is perfectly safe, they put up a "Danger High Voltage" sign on the wall, danger averted :roll:
I am only kidding, but the addition of the sign says they are aware it is dangerous and chose not to fix it. (Willful Violation in the eyes of OSHA)
Such a easy fix, a couple of LBs some ridged run straight up through the overhang and make a mast.
I would think the insurance carrier would have something to say about this if they were made aware of it.
You guys are so picky, this is perfectly safe, they put up a "Danger High Voltage" sign on the wall, danger averted :roll:
I am only kidding, but the addition of the sign says they are aware it is dangerous and chose not to fix it. (Willful Violation in the eyes of OSHA)
Such a easy fix, a couple of LBs some ridged run straight up through the overhang and make a mast.
I would think the insurance carrier would have something to say about this if they were made aware of it.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
Looks like they should be building a fence around this installation. By the way, shouldn't there be a permanent placque on the side of the building identifying multiple services ? 230.1(E)
Looks like they should be building a fence around this installation. By the way, shouldn't there be a permanent placque on the side of the building identifying multiple services ? 230.1(E)
joe tedesco
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
Hey Dave:
Was this in Ohio? What's the name of the power company?
What a terrible safety hazard! It's too bad that the AHJ gets his or her wings clipped when these situations arise.
I am sure they would like to rattle some cages, but the politics always gets in the way.
With your permission, since these were also posted on our site too by you, I will send them in as an article for Code Watch, OK?
PS: What was the name of the street in Indianapolis where we met at my seminar a few months ago?
Hey Dave:
Was this in Ohio? What's the name of the power company?
What a terrible safety hazard! It's too bad that the AHJ gets his or her wings clipped when these situations arise.
I am sure they would like to rattle some cages, but the politics always gets in the way.
With your permission, since these were also posted on our site too by you, I will send them in as an article for Code Watch, OK?
PS: What was the name of the street in Indianapolis where we met at my seminar a few months ago?
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
The power company was Cleveland Electric Illuminating Co. now called First Energy.
I'm guessing this has been here since the 70's.
Yes, these photos may be copied and reproduced by anyone.
The street name in Indianapolis is W.86th. Street.
The power company was Cleveland Electric Illuminating Co. now called First Energy.
I'm guessing this has been here since the 70's.
Yes, these photos may be copied and reproduced by anyone.
The street name in Indianapolis is W.86th. Street.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
Is the barrel to catch the drips off of the "drip loop"?
Charlie, at least there is a meter. Is this CT metering?
[ August 10, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
Is the barrel to catch the drips off of the "drip loop"?
Charlie, at least there is a meter. Is this CT metering?
[ August 10, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
At a facility like this traffic could range from golf carts to front end loaders.
Picture the guy mowing this grass with a utility tractor the operator could get "clothes lined" by the drip loop.
I agree a fence could keep people from walking up to it, I think it is still necessary to get the whole drop up to 18' you can see tire tracks going between the building and the pole. (pictures 1 & 2)
At a facility like this traffic could range from golf carts to front end loaders.
Picture the guy mowing this grass with a utility tractor the operator could get "clothes lined" by the drip loop.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
And, I think the left two drops are unmetered and attached to a rack and the R/H one looks like a 200 ampere service that is metered for some reason (maybe venders?).
I think the barrel is there to be used as a door stop.
And, I think the left two drops are unmetered and attached to a rack and the R/H one looks like a 200 ampere service that is metered for some reason (maybe venders?).frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
charile your guess is good as my but i know i see the photo on right side the 200 amp is single phase socket but for other conducters i belive it is 277/480 volts 3 ph or 120/208 volts but i can see the transfomer connetion so i knew it is a wye connetion but i leaning more to 120/208 but i know my poco regulations say for single phase and three phase services:
120/240 v sp with 277/480 v 3 ph for seprate metering but discourage this practice now
120/240 v sp with 120/208 v 3 phase service
this pratcice is completly advoidable
if need more details i will print the seperate forums for service requirements
merci marc
charile your guess is good as my but i know i see the photo on right side the 200 amp is single phase socket but for other conducters i belive it is 277/480 volts 3 ph or 120/208 volts but i can see the transfomer connetion so i knew it is a wye connetion but i leaning more to 120/208 but i know my poco regulations say for single phase and three phase services:
120/240 v sp with 277/480 v 3 ph for seprate metering but discourage this practice now
120/240 v sp with 120/208 v 3 phase service
this pratcice is completly advoidable
if need more details i will print the seperate forums for service requirements
merci marc
sparkmantoo
Member
- Location
- Virginia
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
what a mess! i guess the guy standing next to the drop is the safety monitor to tell people to stay away from it. i want his job...i wonder how much he makes?
what a mess! i guess the guy standing next to the drop is the safety monitor to tell people to stay away from it. i want his job...i wonder how much he makes?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
If your anything like my Dad, he is getting time and half. (time and half of zero)
Bob
I believe that is "Websparky II" so how about it Dave, how much are you paying him?Originally posted by sparkmantoo:
i guess the guy standing next to the drop is the safety monitor to tell people to stay away from it. i want his job...i wonder how much he makes?
If your anything like my Dad, he is getting time and half. (time and half of zero)
Bob
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
I can't help it but to comment on some of the comments made here.
Bob
I can't help it but to comment on some of the comments made here.
It upsets me to hear excuses such as these. Politics or no politics, electrical inspectors work for the State, that is you and I. Their sole purpose is to help enforce the laws that the State, we, have adopted in order to promote consistent, safe practices. Comments like these are excuses not reasons. Were I an inspector and found out that by "turning the other way" I was partly responsible for someone getting injured or worse, I couldn't live with myself. When an inspector can have the authority to hold you and me to specific standards, what relieves them from holding all involved to the same standard? These groups that are in violation are purely in violation just as you or I would be and appropriate action must be pursued. I am afraid there is no argument that would sway me otherwise!
Bob
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
Bob, when the person who signs your paycheck tells you to do something and you don't . . .
I do understand your arguments but I am reflecting what is really happening as shown in the photos. I can't think of any gross violations here that are as bad as those, but I do know that we (as a company) have done some really off the wall things because of political pressure.
Bob, when the person who signs your paycheck tells you to do something and you don't . . .
I do understand your arguments but I am reflecting what is really happening as shown in the photos. I can't think of any gross violations here that are as bad as those, but I do know that we (as a company) have done some really off the wall things because of political pressure.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
I work for a municipality and things happen and get done when managment or the mayor wants it. Rules get bent, sometimes according to whose complaining or wants the work done.
I work for a municipality and things happen and get done when managment or the mayor wants it. Rules get bent, sometimes according to whose complaining or wants the work done.
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
Hi Guys!
I had no idea this would draw this much attention!
This week the Fair is closed. I will try to return and take some more photos.
Yes, Websparky jr., my partner in electrical photos.
Hi Guys!
I had no idea this would draw this much attention!
This week the Fair is closed. I will try to return and take some more photos.
Yes, Websparky jr., my partner in electrical photos.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
First time I have seen the meter above the driploop!
Meterreaders must be taller the the lineman.
Mike P.
First time I have seen the meter above the driploop!
Meterreaders must be taller the the lineman.
Mike P.
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
Well, I have to get my magnetic field two cents in. The fellow standing by the drip loops is in a very high field (200+ mG) if the load goes with conductor size. When conductors are spread out like this, the field bulges way out. When triplexed, the field is minimized.
Karl
Well, I have to get my magnetic field two cents in. The fellow standing by the drip loops is in a very high field (200+ mG) if the load goes with conductor size. When conductors are spread out like this, the field bulges way out. When triplexed, the field is minimized.
Karl
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: Service Side-Entrance?
I apologize if I have presented myself as somehow above anyone else, for I am not. I can understand the helpless feelings one can experience when faced with a decision between right and employed or accepted. Believe me, I have been there and am not without guilt. There will come a time when I again must face a difficult choice between righteousness and social acceptance. I just hope I have the tenacity to make the right choice when that time comes.
We have become a society all too willing to set aside our own moral values for the sake of the almighty dollar. It shouldn't matter who cuts the check. What should matter is that the power of our political and social system of government, democracy, lies solely in the integrity of those who comprise the masses. Who is served by not enforcing the laws for all members of our society equally? After all, we are governed "of the people, by the people, and for the people", right?
Gee, I could have really opened a hornet's nest now, eh? (I grew up in northern Minnesota near the Canadian border. Can you tell?)
Bob
I apologize if I have presented myself as somehow above anyone else, for I am not. I can understand the helpless feelings one can experience when faced with a decision between right and employed or accepted. Believe me, I have been there and am not without guilt. There will come a time when I again must face a difficult choice between righteousness and social acceptance. I just hope I have the tenacity to make the right choice when that time comes.
We have become a society all too willing to set aside our own moral values for the sake of the almighty dollar. It shouldn't matter who cuts the check. What should matter is that the power of our political and social system of government, democracy, lies solely in the integrity of those who comprise the masses. Who is served by not enforcing the laws for all members of our society equally? After all, we are governed "of the people, by the people, and for the people", right?
Gee, I could have really opened a hornet's nest now, eh? (I grew up in northern Minnesota near the Canadian border. Can you tell?)
Bob
- Status