Service switch

[PaulEd]

For the new service switch required for services and service changes on the outside of a house. It’s my understanding that we don’t need to bond the ground rod and Watermain at the switch on the outside but we could still do it at the panel on the inside? Wasn’t there an exception in the code that allowed for the switch outside to not be the main switch therefore not requiring a neutral/ground bond?

 

[augie47]

IMO, it's a word game.
If you call it a "service switch" ie: service disconnect the the GEC would connect there (or before)
If you call it an "Emergency Disconnect" per 230.85 then the GECs could connect to your Service Disconnect.

 

[PaulEd]

IMO, it's a word game.
If you call it a "service switch" ie: service disconnect the the GEC would connect there (or before)
If you call it an "Emergency Disconnect" per 230.85 then the GECs could connect to your Service Disconnect.

Any experience on what the AHJ’s are calling it?

 

[marmathsen]

I have been meaning to ask the same question. If you simply label the ESD as "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT" does that give you the ability to have the GES run to the indoor panel with a main disconnect labeled "SERVICE DISCONNECT"? This would be a big labor saving trick when doing a service change where the existing electrode system is OK to reuse.

Rob G, Seattle

 

[electrofelon]

IMO, it's a word game.
If you call it a "service switch" ie: service disconnect the the GEC would connect there (or before)
If you call it an "Emergency Disconnect" per 230.85 then the GECs could connect to your Service Disconnect.

I have been meaning to ask the same question. If you simply label the ESD as "EMERGENCY DISCONNECT, NOT SERVICE EQUIPMENT" does that give you the ability to have the GES run to the indoor panel with a main disconnect labeled "SERVICE DISCONNECT"? This would be a big labor saving trick when doing a service change where the existing electrode system is OK to reuse.

Rob G, Seattle

But doesnt it depend on the wiring betwix the outside disconnect and the inside disconnect?

IF it is 3 wire betwix, then you cannot call the outdoor thing a service disconnect.
If it is 4 wire betwix, then the outside thing is your service disconnect (could you elect to not use one of the conductors and then go to case #1?)

BTW though, note the GEC can terminate anywhere from the service point to the service disconnect. IT does not have to be in the service disconnect.

 

[LarryFine]

This would be a big labor saving trick when doing a service change where the existing electrode system is OK to reuse.

As well as retaining the existing entrance cabling.

 

[marmathsen]

But doesnt it depend on the wiring betwix the outside disconnect and the inside disconnect?

IF it is 3 wire betwix, then you cannot call the outdoor thing a service disconnect.
If it is 4 wire betwix, then the outside thing is your service disconnect (could you elect to not use one of the conductors and then go to case #1?)

BTW though, note the GEC can terminate anywhere from the service point to the service disconnect. IT does not have to be in the service disconnect.

But doesnt it depend on the wiring betwix the outside disconnect and the inside disconnect?

IF it is 3 wire betwixt, then you cannot call the outdoor thing a service disconnect.
If it is 4 wire betwixt, then the outside thing is your service disconnect (could you elect to not use one of the conductors and then go to case #1?)

Yes I didn't include the bit of detail about not having an equipment ground but that would be part and parcel of having the service disconnect inside and not at the emergency service disconnect.

BTW though, note the GEC can terminate anywhere from the service point to the service disconnect. IT does not have to be in the service disconnect.

True, but I was trying to figure out if it was allowed to leave the GEC at the indoor panel when doing a service/panel change

Rob G, Seattle

 

[electrofelon]

Yes I didn't include the bit of detail about not having an equipment ground but that would be part and parcel of having the service disconnect inside and not at the emergency service disconnect.




True, but I was trying to figure out if it was allowed to leave the GEC at the indoor panel when doing a service/panel change

Rob G, Seattle

If you only have three wire between the inside and outside disco, I don't see how you can call the outside one a service disconnect unless you replaced the cable to 4 wire. So your inside disco is your service disco and you can certainly land your GEC there.

 

[marmathsen]

As well as retaining the existing entrance cabling.

And wouldn't it also solve the 3-wire stove issue that arises when the service disconnect moves outside per 250.104?

Rob G, Seattle

 

[marmathsen]

If you only have three wire between the inside and outside disco, I don't see how you can call the outside one a service disconnect unless you replaced the cable to 4 wire. So your inside disco is your service disco and you can certainly land your GEC there.

Is anyone else using this trick when doing service changes? If so have you had pushback from AHJs?

Rob G, Seattle

 

[electrofelon]

And wouldn't it also solve the 3-wire stove issue that arises when the service disconnect moves outside per 250.104?

Rob G, Seattle

I would have to double check the wording, but I believe so.

 

[Fred B]

Wasn’t there an exception in the code that allowed for the switch outside to not be the main switch therefore not requiring a neutral/ground bond?

Depends on code cycle you are on. Assume your reference to "the main switch" is actually the first overcurrent devise.
The "switch" can be a simple blade type or be a breaker style with the allowance found beginning with the '20 cycle of a "Label" applied with wording difference found in @augie47 reference above.