Service upgrade

[Ajr188]

Good morning all.
I have a question regarding service upgrades, I am aware that ground rods are required 6 feet apart and to hit the water meter. But when happens when there is not water meter and it is a well?

 

[infinity]

If there is no metal water pipe that qualifies as an electrode all you need are two ground rods for the GES.

 

[Ajr188]

If there is no metal water pipe that qualifies as an electrode all you need are two ground rods for the GES.

We’ll there is a pipe for the well which is why I’m confused. When we have a water meter we have to hit the street side first then then secondary side correct!?

 

[Ajr188]

If there is no metal water pipe that qualifies as an electrode all you need are two ground rods for the GES.

If there is a metal water pipe for the well does that have to be hit or is the rod enough

 

[ActionDave]

A metal water pipe would need to be included in the grounding electrode system.

 

[Ajr188]

Regardless If it’s a well or not !? Also does it matter there the pipe is hit. Because technically there is no “ street side “

 

[Ajr188]

Where ***

 

[roger]

Read 250.52(A)(1)

 

[Ajr188]

Read 250.52(A)(1)

(1) At least one structural metal member that is in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more, with or without concrete encasement

That still does not tell if it has to be hit. And where

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If there is a metal water pipe from the well and there is 10' of contact with the earth then that pipe would be an electrode and must be connected to the grounding electrode system within 5' of where it enters the building. If there is a meter under the house then you need to run a jumper between both sides of the water line.

If the pipe from the well is plastic and the rest of the house is metal then you need to bond the metal piping at any point along the pipe.

 

[roger]

(1) At least one structural metal member that is in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more, with or without concrete encasement

That still does not tell if it has to be hit. And where

Where do you see the words "one structural member" in (A)(1)

(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground
water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or
more (including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe) and
electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by
bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the
points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and
the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed.

And yes, if it is present it has to be used, read 250.50

 

[Ajr188]

Where do you see the words "one structural member" in (A)(1)



And yes, if it is present it has to be used.

I am not a professional at interpreting the words in this book sorry sir.

 

[Ajr188]

If there is a metal water pipe from the well and there is 10' of contact with the earth then that pipe would be an electrode and must be connected to the grounding electrode system within 5' of where it enters the building. If there is a meter under the house then you need to run a jumper between both sides of the water line.

If the pipe from the well is plastic and the rest of the house is metal then you need to bond the metal piping at any point along the pipe.

That you for the detailed response that’s exactly what I was looking for. The help is greatly appreciated

 

[roger]

I am not a professional at interpreting the words in this book sorry sir.

Your profile says you are an electrician. Regardless, you do not have to interpret the words of 250.50(A)(1) they are straight forward, you were reading 250.52 (A)(2)(1)

 

[Ajr188]

Your profile says you are an electrician. Regardless, you do not have to interpret the words of 250.50(A)(1) they are straight forward, you were reading 250.50 (A)(2)(1)

Yea I am, so that means I’m supposed to be able to interpret everything in the book with out having questions!?….. I’m here to ask and learn to do the job correctly and safe. I’m not perfect and would never claim to be. I

 

[roger]

Yea I am, so that means I’m supposed to be able to interpret everything in the book with out having questions!?….. I’m here to ask and learn to do the job correctly and safe. I’m not perfect and would never claim to be. I

Questions are fine and good but I gave you the article section and you didn't read it, you read another section.

 

[Ajr188]

Questions are fine and good but I gave you the article section and you didn't read it, you read another section.

Thanks I’ll read it up and down when I get to my book.

 

[roger]

Thanks I’ll read it up and down when I get to my book.

 

[kwired]

The section mentioned in "the book" is about what grounding electrodes are required to be used (if they are present).

10 feet of metal water pipe directly buried in earth is required to be used. No mention of whether municipal supplied, private well, etc. Just 10 feet of metal water pipe.

The water meter situation happens to be something from another section that requires bonding around mostly in the case that said meter or certain other items that may be subject to removal therefore opening the continuity of the path to the water pipe electrode, this bonding around the meter is to prevent opening of that path when item is removed.

"Street side" is field jargon and not NEC language. One can however read through actual NEC requirements and conclude hitting the "street side" first is the best way to do nearly all your installs, but isn't exactly what it says and there are possibly other ways that still can be compliant in some cases.

Then there is local rules or interpretations that kick in sometimes.

 

[infinity]

There is no longer a street side of the water meter requirement although there was one a few decades ago.