Have a building w/existing 400 Amp 3 phase 4 wire 480/277 volt service. Owner wants to add on to building w/another 400 amp service metered seperate. Addition will not have fire wall, except for a fire pump room that will also need 400 amp service. Question: Can the fire pump room house the service for new addition, thus taking care of the one service per building rule.
Services
- Thread starter smr1969
- Start date
- Status
Re: Services
I don't think so. Even if your AHJ allowed it, the utility co. won't be happy about supplying another service to a building they have already provided with one service. (In other works, they may want to bill for any work they do, or any material they use).
Steve
[ June 23, 2005, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: steve66 ]
I don't think so. Even if your AHJ allowed it, the utility co. won't be happy about supplying another service to a building they have already provided with one service. (In other works, they may want to bill for any work they do, or any material they use).
Steve
[ June 23, 2005, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: steve66 ]
wirenut1980
Senior Member
- Location
- Plainfield, IN
Re: Services
See NEC 230.2(A) through (E). If you meet any of these requirements (with the agreement of the AHJ), the building is permitted to have more than one service. But as Steve said, it will probably cost you $$$ with the utility.
See NEC 230.2(A) through (E). If you meet any of these requirements (with the agreement of the AHJ), the building is permitted to have more than one service. But as Steve said, it will probably cost you $$$ with the utility.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Services
Steve, why wouldn't the electric utility be happy to install additional service? If they have capacity at the first service location, why wouldn't they charge you for the additional transformation and the facilities to get to the other service location? I assure you that we would charge you, especially for a fire pump service where we don't get a return on our investment.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Services
I had the same situation as the OP, an existing building with a 400 amp 208Y/120 service and the engineer wanted a second identical service added for the addition we were wiring. The POCO said no way, 1 customer, 1 service , 1 cash register.
I don't know the reason Charlie but POCOs can be funny.
I had the same situation as the OP, an existing building with a 400 amp 208Y/120 service and the engineer wanted a second identical service added for the addition we were wiring. The POCO said no way, 1 customer, 1 service , 1 cash register.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Services
I know, most of the quirks are either the result of someone waving the red flag of safety, the standards engineering group being overly conservative, or a distribution engineer not being sure of themselves. For instance, we do not offer an ungrounded delta service because of safety (don't ask, I don't want to take all night explaining). We also will not give a corner grounded delta service (same reason).
tx2step
Senior Member
- Location
- North Texas, DFW area
Re: Services
I've never heard those terms before.
Bob -- At the risk of letting my ignorance show (something that I do regularly) -- what is cold sequence metering and hot sequence metering?Originally posted by iwire:
Which was a compromise with the POCO as they normally wanted cold sequence metering above 400 amps.
To reach this compromise I agreed to relocate the meter to a better location for the meter reader and they agreed to hot sequence metering so I did not need to buy an 800 amp main.
I've never heard those terms before.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Services
All it means is whether the metering is on the line or load side of the service disconnect.
It is not ignorance, it is probably just a local term that the power companies I deal with use.
All it means is whether the metering is on the line or load side of the service disconnect.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Services
Actually, most (all?) electric utilities use the term and your definition is correct.
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Services
I learnt sumptin new today. Makes sense to me.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Services
Bob,
The switch on the line side of the meter is not always the service disconnect. It may just be a meter disconnect as permitted by 230.82(3). If it is a meter disconnect there is no OCPD in or ajacent to the meter disconnect. The service disconnect and OCPD would still be on the load side of the meter in this type of installation.
Don
Bob,
The switch on the line side of the meter is not always the service disconnect. It may just be a meter disconnect as permitted by 230.82(3). If it is a meter disconnect there is no OCPD in or ajacent to the meter disconnect. The service disconnect and OCPD would still be on the load side of the meter in this type of installation.
Don
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Services
Don Meter disconnects may exist in MA but I have never seen a service in MA with a meter disconnect.
All the switches I have seen and installed have had OCP.
Don Meter disconnects may exist in MA but I have never seen a service in MA with a meter disconnect.
All the switches I have seen and installed have had OCP.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Services
Bob,
In this area most disconnects on the line side of the meter remain under the control of the utility. That is they are sealed and locked by the utility and cannot serve as the service disconnect because you can't operate the disconnect.
Don
Bob,
In this area most disconnects on the line side of the meter remain under the control of the utility. That is they are sealed and locked by the utility and cannot serve as the service disconnect because you can't operate the disconnect.
Don
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Services
That makes sense Don, and thanks for your reply.
I was thinking about starting a thread asking why I would spend the money for the extra switch.
Around here we always have access to the service disconnect and many times the CT cabinets are not even sealed or locked.
That makes sense Don, and thanks for your reply.
I was thinking about starting a thread asking why I would spend the money for the extra switch.
Around here we always have access to the service disconnect and many times the CT cabinets are not even sealed or locked.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Services
In our downtown area, the choice is up to the EC as to whether or not they install a meter disconnect. The metering is required by us to be cold sequence and we normally meter the feeder but a meter disconnect may be installed and the control of it turned over to us. If this is done, the metering may be done normally. If we meter the feeder, the meter fitting grounding is much different if the fitting is not near to the service equipment.
In our downtown area, the choice is up to the EC as to whether or not they install a meter disconnect. The metering is required by us to be cold sequence and we normally meter the feeder but a meter disconnect may be installed and the control of it turned over to us. If this is done, the metering may be done normally. If we meter the feeder, the meter fitting grounding is much different if the fitting is not near to the service equipment.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Services
Bob around here the only place I have seen cold sequence metering is on apartment buildings or strip malls where the gainable meters are after the service disconnect that does have fuses rated for the service conductors.
Bob around here the only place I have seen cold sequence metering is on apartment buildings or strip malls where the gainable meters are after the service disconnect that does have fuses rated for the service conductors.
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
Re: Services
same here.Originally posted by hurk27:
Bob around here the only place I have seen cold sequence metering is on apartment buildings or strip malls where the gainable meters are after the service disconnect that does have fuses rated for the service conductors.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Services
We deal with a few different utilities actually quite a few as many towns in this area have 'Municipal Light and Power Dept's'. Which are essentially not for profit town owned power companies.
Some want cold sequence on any service above 250 to ground, some want all CT metering to be cold sequence.
It is always best to check before making plans.
We deal with a few different utilities actually quite a few as many towns in this area have 'Municipal Light and Power Dept's'. Which are essentially not for profit town owned power companies.
Some want cold sequence on any service above 250 to ground, some want all CT metering to be cold sequence.
It is always best to check before making plans.
- Status