Seu cable

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a.f. electric

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Mike,
I helped a friend, who lost his house during Sandy, install a new service on his newly built house. When he rebuilt the house it had to be built on top of pilings. The first floor is approximately 8 feet above the ground. The inspector failed the service because I ran the SEU cable approximately 15 feet along the beam supporting the house and then up and into the house through the bottom plate. There is only about 3 feet inside the wall in the house. He said that it fails because the cable is within the footprint of the house. He said I can either install a disconnect after the meter and run SER cable the same way the SEU is run or I could run it along the outside of the house along the front face and in through the front wall. I can not find anything in the NEC to support his theory. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Anthony
 
a.f. electric said:
Mike,
I helped a friend, who lost his house during Sandy, install a new service on his newly built house. When he rebuilt the house it had to be built on top of pilings. The first floor is approximately 8 feet above the ground. The inspector failed the service because I ran the SEU cable approximately 15 feet along the beam supporting the house and then up and into the house through the bottom plate. There is only about 3 feet inside the wall in the house. He said that it fails because the cable is within the footprint of the house. He said I can either install a disconnect after the meter and run SER cable the same way the SEU is run or I could run it along the outside of the house along the front face and in through the front wall. I can not find anything in the NEC to support his theory. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Anthony
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I tend to think this is compliant with the NEC. That said, this is always a touchy area with many AHJs. Some have local rules regarding this. Many won't allow service conductors to enter a building at all-even if coming out of slab on grade directly to the service enclosure. The SE cable under the structure as in your case just adds to the issue. I guess you have to see if they have any local rules for the AHJ to require this. What is customary in the area?
 
There was another recent thread on this topic, where the house was on stilts more than one story above the ground and the AHJ would not allow the service disconnect to be at ground level inside the footprint of the house.
It is frustrating, but the NEC definition is firm that inside the footprint, regardless of height, is formally inside the house.
The alternative was to encase the service wires in concrete up to the service disconnect at ground level.

Tapatalk!
 
I agree with the inspector. If that was a crawl space or if the house had under pinning then you wouldn't even ask this question. However this is a common install at the beaches in NC since the disconnects on the outside get destroyed by the salt. Some areas will allow it if you use emt to the inside.
 
GoldDigger said:
There was another recent thread on this topic, where the house was on stilts more than one story above the ground and the AHJ would not allow the service disconnect to be at ground level inside the footprint of the house.
It is frustrating, but the NEC definition is firm that inside the footprint, regardless of height, is formally inside the house.
The alternative was to encase the service wires in concrete up to the service disconnect at ground level.

Tapatalk!
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Which NEC definition?

What about an overhead service cable that is over the foot print of a building, but otherwise outside the structure? I have seen many of those.
 
kwired said:
Which NEC definition?

What about an overhead service cable that is over the foot print of a building, but otherwise outside the structure? I have seen many of those.
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Over the footprint is fine, since fire prefers to spread upward. Below the footprint is not.

230.6(1) and (4) [2011] imply that under a building is not "outside" the building unless other conditions (i.e. concrete or earth cover) are met.
I recall a clearer statement than that, but am having trouble locating it.

Table 300.5 also talks around this concept.
 
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Perhaps it is the word "footprint" that needs to be clarified.

I don't think NEC actually uses the word footprint either, did a search for the word and had no hits.
 
FWIW- I agree with the inspector.

Would you not consider SE Cable installed under the structure (in a crawl) as being done the same way thus entering the structure per se'. Now, the jurisdictions I used to work for (which will remain anonymous) specifically had a policy addressing this issue and they made it clear that it did not apply to overhangs but did apply to anywhere the SE Cable extended under the footprint specified in the building plan submittal.

I am sure we can all argue semantics of "footprint" and so on but at the end of the day....the local AHJ is going to have to be convinced otherwise. In areas near the beach I have spoken to building officials who consider the outline of a building on stilts to be continued down to the soil in terms of applying the NEC.

Just my thoughts on it....I can only assume the local AHJ you are dealing with feels the same way.
 
I had a further discussion with my friend and he stated that it was not the fact that it was within the footprint of the house that was the problem but that the SEU exceeded 4' within the building (approximately 4'-6" according to his measurement). His concern about the running of it under the footprint was just a suggestion to the owner that it would need to be changed to SER cable with a disconnect if he decided to enclose the pilings in any way in the future. I looked at a couple other strings here and it seems there is a wide variance in interpretation to the acceptable length of SEU cable after it enters the building and what would be considered the entry point. That being said, it will be changed out to a disconnect and SER cable because my friend wants to enclose the area in the future.
 
a.f. electric said:
I had a further discussion with my friend and he stated that it was not the fact that it was within the footprint of the house that was the problem but that the SEU exceeded 4' within the building (approximately 4'-6" according to his measurement). His concern about the running of it under the footprint was just a suggestion to the owner that it would need to be changed to SER cable with a disconnect if he decided to enclose the pilings in any way in the future. I looked at a couple other strings here and it seems there is a wide variance in interpretation to the acceptable length of SEU cable after it enters the building and what would be considered the entry point. That being said, it will be changed out to a disconnect and SER cable because my friend wants to enclose the area in the future.
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Yep, every AHJ has there own way of looking at 230.70. Some say 4', some say 5', some say only "back to back", some even say can't be inside at all...its all over the map. I've also run into POCOs that have policies on this.
 
kwired said:
Perhaps it is the word "footprint" that needs to be clarified.

I don't think NEC actually uses the word footprint either, did a search for the word and had no hits.
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Clarifying footprint is unnecessary, as Code does not actually use it, as you note. It appears reverse logic has been applied to the requirement of 230.6(1)? paraphrased in part: conductors must be installed under not less than 2" of concrete beneath a building or other structure.

That said, in Article 230 the word outside is used twice in 230.6, then once again in 230.70(A)(1)?regarding location of service disconnecting means... so technically Article 230 does not have a requirement for service conductors to be outside. :slaphead:
 
Another somewhat similar application is mobile homes. You can't put the service equipment on a mobile home - therefore no service conductors will be on the home. The rules are more clear in this instance though.
 
kwired said:
Another somewhat similar application is mobile homes. You can't put the service equipment on a mobile home - therefore no service conductors will be on the home. The rules are more clear in this instance though.
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That's correct.
 
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