I'm installing a 120 volt, 20 amp circuit with a 20 amp receptacle for a sewage pump for a septic tank outdoors.I have a 4x4 post where I mounted a weather tight box with a single receptacle with an in-use weather tight cover.The pump plugs into the receptacle and has a piggy back plug which is a float switch.Does this circuit have to be GFCI protected? I need to know the code article.Thanks
SEWAGE PUMP
- Thread starter z-men
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gregoryelectricinc
Senior Member
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
210-8. I don't beleive this installation would fall under any of the exceptions so does need GFI protection. I have run this race before with a sump pump circuit. Manufacturer of pump says absolutely no GFI protection allowed, NEC says I must provide it. Got me coming and going. Solved it by removing the receptacle and hard-wiring the pump motor via a single-pole switch. The motor was fractional HP and thermally protected.
210-8. I don't beleive this installation would fall under any of the exceptions so does need GFI protection. I have run this race before with a sump pump circuit. Manufacturer of pump says absolutely no GFI protection allowed, NEC says I must provide it. Got me coming and going. Solved it by removing the receptacle and hard-wiring the pump motor via a single-pole switch. The motor was fractional HP and thermally protected.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
If this is in a location 'other than dwelling', than GFCI is not required.
Pierre
If this is in a location 'other than dwelling', than GFCI is not required.
Pierre
G
Guest
Guest
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
My posting style is to ask more questions if I don't fully understand the question or the scope of the work. Here we go:
Is this job commercial, industrial, or residential?
Is it a private or public job?
What is the horsepower rating of the pump?
Does it have a 15-amp or 20-amp factory plug end?
What else can you tell us about the site?
We can give a safer answer once we fully understand the question and the setting. Not all answers may be required, but the more data, the better the quality of the answers.
My posting style is to ask more questions if I don't fully understand the question or the scope of the work. Here we go:
Is this job commercial, industrial, or residential?
Is it a private or public job?
What is the horsepower rating of the pump?
Does it have a 15-amp or 20-amp factory plug end?
What else can you tell us about the site?
We can give a safer answer once we fully understand the question and the setting. Not all answers may be required, but the more data, the better the quality of the answers.
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
Thanks for the replys.The pump motor is 1/4 hp 15 amp plug on cord.The job is a residental home the pump lifts the water from one septic tank to another tank.I could hard wire it but then I would have to cut the plug off the cord and the plug off the float switch. guess I'll install a GFCI.It has a high water alarm so if the GFCI trips we'll hear the alarm.The way I read 210.8 exceptions is I do or I don't need a GFCI receptacle I can't tell.
Thanks for the replys.The pump motor is 1/4 hp 15 amp plug on cord.The job is a residental home the pump lifts the water from one septic tank to another tank.I could hard wire it but then I would have to cut the plug off the cord and the plug off the float switch. guess I'll install a GFCI.It has a high water alarm so if the GFCI trips we'll hear the alarm.The way I read 210.8 exceptions is I do or I don't need a GFCI receptacle I can't tell.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
Z-men
Because this is a dwelling, you are required to GFCI. Don't forget the 'inuse' cover.
You mentioned a high water alarm, will that work if the GFCI is tripped?
400.10(A)(3) and 400.3(B) require that the sump pump be connected with an 'Attachment plug'.
Pierre
Z-men
Because this is a dwelling, you are required to GFCI. Don't forget the 'inuse' cover.
You mentioned a high water alarm, will that work if the GFCI is tripped?
400.10(A)(3) and 400.3(B) require that the sump pump be connected with an 'Attachment plug'.
Pierre
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
210.8. See also 406.8 You need it.
[ September 26, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
210.8. See also 406.8 You need it.
[ September 26, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: ryan_618 ]
G
Guest
Guest
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
Sump pump cords get difficult to re-wire or extend as some of them contain a little air tube. I don't remember the details, but it's not always easy to hardwire, rewire, or extend a sump pump cord. There are waterproofing issues at the pump end too. The factory cord is the best thing to preserve if possible. Been there, done that.
../Wayne C.
[ September 26, 2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
Sump pump cords get difficult to re-wire or extend as some of them contain a little air tube. I don't remember the details, but it's not always easy to hardwire, rewire, or extend a sump pump cord. There are waterproofing issues at the pump end too. The factory cord is the best thing to preserve if possible. Been there, done that.
../Wayne C.
[ September 26, 2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
russellroberts
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
I use Gregoryelectric's method,the hardwiring of both the lift pump motor and the alarm float switch seems to offer a practical solution.
I arrived at this method after an installation in a lightning prone area constantly required me to go reset the gfci recep amid the homeowner's cursing of the Nec and electricians in general.
Cutting the plug off the cords probably violates the "listing" but from a practical standpoint,the hardwiring method eliminates a lot of problems.
Imho,the sewage"grinder" pumps installed in the basement floor nor the lift pump in the septic pumping chamber falls under the heading of a sump pump.
Russell
I use Gregoryelectric's method,the hardwiring of both the lift pump motor and the alarm float switch seems to offer a practical solution.
I arrived at this method after an installation in a lightning prone area constantly required me to go reset the gfci recep amid the homeowner's cursing of the Nec and electricians in general.
Cutting the plug off the cords probably violates the "listing" but from a practical standpoint,the hardwiring method eliminates a lot of problems.
Imho,the sewage"grinder" pumps installed in the basement floor nor the lift pump in the septic pumping chamber falls under the heading of a sump pump.
Russell
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
By my read 210.8 exception 2 would apply here. Therefore No GFI is needed.
By my read 210.8 exception 2 would apply here. Therefore No GFI is needed.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
at least with some of these pumps, I had the opportunity to read the instructions for a residential 120 volt sewer ejector pump and the instruction specifically said you could cut the cord to enter into a box.
The one restriction was that anything you did had to be outside the sewer tank. (you would think that would be a given)
cselectric, unfortunately this pump is outside and that exception would not apply.
The only exception for outside dwelling unit receptacles is for snow melting equipment.
But these instructions also list a 240 volt version that would not require GFCI protection.
Not so,
at least with some of these pumps, I had the opportunity to read the instructions for a residential 120 volt sewer ejector pump and the instruction specifically said you could cut the cord to enter into a box.The one restriction was that anything you did had to be outside the sewer tank. (you would think that would be a given)
cselectric, unfortunately this pump is outside and that exception would not apply.
The only exception for outside dwelling unit receptacles is for snow melting equipment.
But these instructions also list a 240 volt version that would not require GFCI protection.
russellroberts
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
Bob,thanks for the info about the cords. I've installed several of these over the years but never noticed that.
I have a confession to make about the hardwiring method I use,I was frustrated about not having a good method for the wiring, and was enlightened by Steve the Romex Jockey.
Russell
Bob,thanks for the info about the cords. I've installed several of these over the years but never noticed that.
I have a confession to make about the hardwiring method I use,I was frustrated about not having a good method for the wiring, and was enlightened by Steve the Romex Jockey.
Russell
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
well thank you Russell
myself, it took years of trial , error , noting the practices of others & asking around
bottom line~ i don't like callbacks, especially to the innards of someone's septic tank
ruins my whole day....
besides, i'd wager most 'lectricians have not recieved the full Hep-B shot series
well thank you Russell
myself, it took years of trial , error , noting the practices of others & asking around
bottom line~ i don't like callbacks, especially to the innards of someone's septic tank
ruins my whole day....
besides, i'd wager most 'lectricians have not recieved the full Hep-B shot series
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
I do not know if all brands have the same instruction, but I will tell you the brand name that does on Monday night.
This instruction sheet is the only reading material within reach of the "facilities" at the job I am working now.
I do not know if all brands have the same instruction, but I will tell you the brand name that does on Monday night.
This instruction sheet is the only reading material within reach of the "facilities" at the job I am working now.
russellroberts
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
Bob,it's amazing what you can learn reading in the "facilities"
Russell
Bob,it's amazing what you can learn reading in the "facilities"
Russell
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
Re: SEWAGE PUMP
i always keep this trades periodicals available at my exalted 'facilities'
i always keep this trades periodicals available at my exalted 'facilities'
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