Shaking My Head

[gadfly56]

So, I've mentioned a project we're trying to wrap up in Newark, NJ. A very small part of our scope was to supply a couple of relay modules to activate two stairwell pressurization fans. The GC's PM starts asking me questions about how to hook them up. I'm like, "Isn't that the HVAC control contractor's scope?" Well, sure, but all he's got is the fans and a couple of VFD's. That's it. No control signal to the VFD's, no pressure controller, nothing. How do people accept a scope and not plan to complete it?

 

[ramsy]

Is PM afraid to submit change order to correct his own oversight, or is he trying to help HVAC contractor?

 

[gadfly56]

Is PM afraid to submit change order to correct his own oversight, or is he trying to help HVAC contractor?

I'm not sure it's the current PM's fault. He isn't actually the job PM, he's the PM's supervisor, but the PM doesn't seem to know what he doesn't know. The job has had about 4 PM's that I can recall. He was trying to pick my brain to see if I had any idea. I can block diagram the process, but my controls theory has nearly 50 years of rust on it. It's just the idea that some random fire alarm designer has more of a clue than the contractor nominally responsible for this subsystem is both ridiculous and scary.

 

[ramsy]

Sounds like an RFI / RFQ for fire alarm contractor, since no one else can touch fire systems.

 

[petersonra]

Sounds like an RFI / RFQ for fire alarm contractor, since no one else can touch fire systems.

I agree. I think this is something you are better off staying out of.

 

[jaggedben]

I agree. I think this is something you are better off staying out of.

He's a fire alarm contractor IIRC.

 

[brantmacga]

He's a fire alarm contractor IIRC.

Under his name it says:

Occupation: Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety

 

[gadfly56]

Sounds like an RFI / RFQ for fire alarm contractor, since no one else can touch fire systems.

I can assure you that this is not in the fire alarm contractor's wheelhouse. This is strictly on the HVAC side. The only thing we provide is a relay that gives the stairwell fans the "go" signal. I still don't know if they got it figured out. More info on Monday.

 

[hillbilly1]

Sounds like the fire alarm contractor is providing the dry contact, and it’s up to the HVAC contractor to make it work, but a failure on the mechanical engineer to specify what it’s supposed to do for the HVAC contractor?

 

[gadfly56]

Sounds like the fire alarm contractor is providing the dry contact, and it’s up to the HVAC contractor to make it work, but a failure on the mechanical engineer to specify what it’s supposed to do for the HVAC contractor?

Pretty much, but I think the intent was delegated design, so the HVAC contractor was supposed to cover the design scope. Which clearly, they didn't.

 

[Todd0x1]

How does it show on the plans? Or is there no detail for this and thats how HVAC missed it? I feel like situations such as this are often caused by 20 something MEP designers with a degree in revit whom have never actually been on a construction site.

 

[gadfly56]

How does it show on the plans? Or is there no detail for this and thats how HVAC missed it? I feel like situations such as this are often caused by 20 something MEP designers with a degree in revit whom have never actually been on a construction site.

There's an entire detail sheet showing the sheet metal work and fan for each stairwell. There is also a block diagram of the control scheme. Definitely more than a buried sheet note.

 

[Todd0x1]

There's an entire detail sheet showing the sheet metal work and fan for each stairwell. There is also a block diagram of the control scheme. Definitely more than a buried sheet note.

Ok that's good.

 

[ptonsparky]

I did well house for an area village. Service, PP, Lights, heat etc. Control was not in my scope. I ran the conduits but nothing else. Figured they had someone special chosen for that part. Nope. An oops on the Engineers part. Next similar project had the controls included.