Should C-10 pay JW 8 hours for this

[ramsy]

On call JW may be used about 4 hours per week average, dispatched locally to purchase all materials, and C-10 pays nothing up front. (This relationship works using PayPal payments, usually within 7 days)

C-10 walked thru & bid, then dispatched JW's truck & ladders to pick-up material at big-box store (5 miles from this jobsite). This "Just In Time" inventory technique is preferred by C-10, and required JW to make one avoidable return trip for missing supplies. (JW had no white THHN on board)

C-10 figured 6 hrs max for 4 tasks to re-feed pool motor:

1) Demo old rigid (20ft), cut out frozen conductors emerging from pool-light box, panel, corroded UG pipe, & dispose of old rigid.

2) Install 50ft 12-3 from available expansion flex in panel to attic, staple 40ft thru attic to new WP box under eve, above pool motor.
a) JW demanded to wrap bare EGC's from attic with green tape. NEC 680.21(A)(1)
b) Some sweat, and 3 attic-nail wounds in JW's head did not slow production, just made wet material receipts hard to read.

3) Anchor strap & glue 3/4 PVC from WP box under eve & 90 bend, (total 10ft) to new 2-gang WP box, new duplex GFCI & light switch. New Liqidtight and missing EGC from motor to timer, to 2-gang box.
a) JW claims access for motor EGC wiring required remove/replace plumbing fittings.

4) Pull THHN thru outside raceways, Megger test, finish panel, GFCI, switch, old timer wiring, & test on existing 20A breakers.

This JW is reliable, does good work, & usually responds to calls fast, but took 12 hours, including hour lunch. JW is asking 8 hours for entire job. Would you pay 8 hours for this work.

 

[growler]

This JW is reliable, does good work, & usually responds to calls fast, but took 12 hours, including hour lunch. JW is asking 8 hours for entire job. Would you pay 8 hours for this work.

Other than the hour for lunch ( most don't pay for lunch ) you should get payed for the time worked. If you are an employee if a sub contract there really are no rules.

Employee pay required by law: 11 hours pay

Subcontractor: whatever you can get.

 

[brian john]

1. What is C-10?
2. Is this on call? Off hours?
3. My men working on service calls off hours are paid for every minute.

 

[nakulak]

c-10 =http://www.contractor-licensing.com/california/electrical-license.html

(some calif contractor classification, sounds sort of like a VA class B)

 

[mdshunk]

This JW is reliable, does good work, & usually responds to calls fast, but took 12 hours, including hour lunch. JW is asking 8 hours for entire job. Would you pay 8 hours for this work.

I don't even see why the JW should have to "ask" for any certain pay. An employer-employee relationship isn't like a game of "Let's Make A Deal". You were on the job 12 hours, took an hour lunch, so you need 11 hours pay. Seems quite cut-and-dry to me. I'm not even sure why there's a question about it, unless you somehow got used to some really screwed up pay system that you forgot how it's really supposed to work.

 

[nakulak]

I don't even see why the JW should have to "ask" for any certain pay. An employer-employee relationship isn't like a game of "Let's Make A Deal". You were on the job 12 hours, took an hour lunch, so you need 11 hours pay. Seems quite cut-and-dry to me. I'm not even sure why there's a question about it, unless you somehow got used to some really screwed up pay system that you forgot how it's really supposed to work.

I have worked for guys like this. They think that they should blame the employees if they screw up and don't make money, but when they do make money do you think they share the wealth ? hell no. People who operate like this deserve to be run out of business, they don't know what being a legitimate businessman is all about. (and by the way, fwiw, I despise them)

 

[mdshunk]

I have worked for guys like this. They think that they should blame the employees if they screw up and don't make money, but when they do make money do you think they share the wealth ? hell no. People who operate like this deserve to be run out of business, they don't know what being a legitimate businessman is all about. (and by the way, fwiw, I despise them)

Right... I thought the quote, "C-10 figured 6 hrs max for 4 tasks to re-feed pool motor" and "This JW is reliable, does good work, & usually responds to calls fast, but took 12 hours" pretty much means that the C-10 screwed up. Apparently it wasn't a 6 hour job. It was a 12 hour job. Everyone misses the mark every now and again. I get about 7-1/2 hours just reading over that list, but I also don't have the advantage of seeing the place, plus Lord only knows how long it took to gather up materials. I can easily buy that it took a 12-hour day.

 

[220/221]

Install 50ft 12-3 from available expansion flex in panel to attic

Is this NM?

I thought pool feeds had to have an insulated ground???

 

[brian john]

Maybe I am slow but looks like 12-16 to me.

 

[mdshunk]

Maybe I am slow but looks like 12-16 to me.

Apparently you're right, because it took 12.

 

[220/221]

C-10 figured 6 hrs max

C-10 figured wrong because it took 12.

C-10 needs to strap on his tools once in a while to stay in touch.

JW needs to organize his stock so he doesn't run out of basic materials.

JW needs to keep his receipts in the ash tray.


Refeeding a pool circuit usually takes me all damn day.

 

[ceknight]

C-10 figured 6 hrs max for 4 tasks to re-feed pool motor:

The C-10 figured wrong. And stop me if I'm wrong, but you had a couple of 100 degree days last week and JW was in the attic for a while?

I'd be billing 11 hours for the work and add the materials travel, lunch break, and gatorade breaks on top of that. Yep, sounds like 2 days to me.

 

[electricalperson]

Is this NM?

I thought pool feeds had to have an insulated ground???

the wiring in the house can be romex but the wiring on the exterior needs an insulated ground. they changed this in 2008 because last year we got busted because we didnt run a cable with an insulated ground inside. we had to fish MC in

 

[ramsy]

I have worked for guys like this. ..People who operate like this deserve to be run out of business.

LMAOL - Many contractors in my area can't balance a checkbook, much less pass speak English, or a Psych eval. This CA electrical contractor (C-10) just went BK (Bankrupt) last month, but has always been a pleasure to work for compared to others. My arrangement as a 1099, JW this time (subcontractor) can't use apply labor laws.

There is mutual risk, since sending me on jobs risks losing future calls, when his clients jump up & down with excitement and demand my Bus. card before I leave. This happens occasionally, but I don't usually offer my card for that reason, since my state allows unlicensed JW's to work projects under $500 and contractor wouldn't dispatch me if he thought I was taking his customers.

I get about 7-1/2 hours just reading over that list..

Roger that. The failure to complete a 4-yr apprenticeship cannot be hidden from employment apps, and this contractor is one of the few doing me the favor of exploiting my services, and signing my experience vouchers that my state requires for eventual licensing.

I'll be sending this contractor to this thread tonight, just to see All Yall's objective hour estimates on this job. Many thanks.

 

[Pullnwire]

Just because It took longer he planned does not mean that he only owes you 6 hours. So cal attics are notoriously tight, it was hot, and you were alone. He should have figured that. I had a similar relationship with a contractor a few years ago, and I worked about 50 hours of ot in a month for him, and he paid me straight time, citing there was no ot in the bid, so tough ****. I threatened to call the dept of labor, and Whalla... cash in an envelope appeared..
You are owed for what you worked unless you agreed upon an amount ahead of time.

 

[ramsy]

I threatened to call the dept of labor, and Whalla... cash in an envelope appeared..

Always, nice to see someone else located behind the Orange curtain. (For those on the right-coast, Orange County, CA is just east of Los Angeles, but unlike LA its notoriously conservative in most things political)

I've used similar leverage to negotiate my hourly rate. In my case, other clients I hustled were keeping me busy at higher rates, and I wasn't available for a while.

This job-choice leverage resulted in raising my fair market value, without my asking for it. Because I hustled my own work, I increased the chance of more than one person competing for my time. And, when my services were needed now, to pull me away, the higher rates were just offered without my asking.

There is, however, an opportunity cost investing time in problem relationships that don't pay properly. Dependence on any one client is risky and complacent.

Everyone has difficulties, and I prefer growing together and sharing the wealth, but when it becomes abundantly clear that my time is better spent elsewhere, my priorities have leaned toward the more reliable customers, and that has served to define my own exploitable limits and boundaries.

 

[peter d]

(For those on the right-coast, Orange County, CA is just east of Los Angeles,

Southeast of LA...but who's checking?

 

[DIRT27]

LMAOL - Many contractors in my area can't balance a checkbook, much less pass speak English, or a Psych eval. This CA electrical contractor (C-10) just went BK (Bankrupt) last month, but has always been a pleasure to work for compared to others. My arrangement as a 1099, JW this time (subcontractor) can't use apply labor laws.

There is mutual risk, since sending me on jobs risks losing future calls, when his clients jump up & down with excitement and demand my Bus. card before I leave. This happens occasionally, but I don't usually offer my card for that reason, since my state allows unlicensed JW's to work projects under $500 and contractor wouldn't dispatch me if he thought I was taking his customers.

As a JW you cannot be a subcontractor unless you also have a C-10. In construction contractors cannot hire a sub-contractor, contractors license, liability insurance, and a state identification #. You are allow to do up to $500 for a private party.

So by CA state law you are an employee and should be paid for 11 hrs. I have seen contractors try to 1099 employee's as subs, to avoid workers comp, and taxes on them IMO not a fair business practice. If he was sub-contracting you I hope you were getting twice as much as a regular employee because the expensives go way up with self employment a tax and liability insurance.

 

[ramsy]

So by CA state law you are an employee and should be paid for 11 hrs. I have seen contractors try to 1099 employee's as subs, to avoid workers comp, and taxes on them IMO not a fair business practice..

Agreed, and thanks. Not 1st time I've been lost in these legal woods. Will square this sub. deal pronto.

 

[DIRT27]

http://www.edd.ca.gov/pdf_pub_ctr/de231g.pdf

Look on the right hand side the first underlined paragraph. Pretty much sums it up if there is any question show that to your boss. I know he won't want the EDD on his rear.