shower lights

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

fisherelectric

Senior Member
Location
Northern Va
I have an inspector questioning my use of 4 Lightolier 1084 recessed over top of a hydromessage tub and in a shower. These are listed for use in wet locations and use a par type lamp with a high temp silicone gasket. He's saying the bulb is exposed. As far as I know there is nothing in the code that says I can't use any recessed in a tub or shower area as long as it is listed for wet locations (410.4 D) wether it's a hydromessage tub or not (680.72).
He also questioned the builder about the lights not being GFI protected. These lights are listed w/o GFI protection. Does he know something I don't before I call him in the AM?

http://www.lightolier.com/products/index.jsp?CATREL_ID=20945&BLK=N&CAT_ID=24303
 
fisherelectric said:
I have an inspector questioning my use of 4 Lightolier 1084 recessed over top of a hydromessage tub and in a shower. These are listed for use in wet locations and use a par type lamp with a high temp silicone gasket. He's saying the bulb is exposed. As far as I know there is nothing in the code that says I can't use any recessed in a tub or shower area as long as it is listed for wet locations (410.4 D) wether it's a hydromessage tub or not (680.72).
He also questioned the builder about the lights not being GFI protected. These lights are listed w/o GFI protection. Does he know something I don't before I call him in the AM?

http://www.lightolier.com/products/index.jsp?CATREL_ID=20945&BLK=N&CAT_ID=24303
Click to expand...
your inspector is wrong. ive installed many of this same kind of light (the kind with the white gasket that slides over the par lamp) and its a listed shower light. also the par lamp is made for outdoor use since it has thicker glass than a R, BR or A19 lamp. just dont use anything other than a par bulb and its 100% legal
 
electricalperson said:
your inspector is wrong. ive installed many of this same kind of light (the kind with the white gasket that slides over the par lamp) and its a listed shower light. also the par lamp is made for outdoor use since it has thicker glass than a R, BR or A19 lamp. just dont use anything other than a par bulb and its 100% legal
Click to expand...


I would just use the lamp the damp location trim calls for... not sure why a you said you needed a par lamp to make it 100% legal?
 
because a par lamp is rated for outdoor use while other styles are not if im not mistaken. in my opinion the fixture is subject to shower spray. its not a constant spray but people like using removable shower heads and they might accidently spray the light.
 
its not a constant spray but people like using removable shower heads and they might accidently spray the light

Sounds like they are geting to excited in the tub
 
I am not sure about your area but WA state has a rule stating that exposed parts cannot be metal & if there is exposed metal the fixture must have GFCI protection. I could not tell by your question or the fixture specs if this may be the case.
 
Read 110.2 which states that conductors and equipment are only acceptable "if approved". Then read the definition of approved in article 100. This has NOTHING to do with listing and labeling, and everything to do with being "acceptable to the AHJ". You will either need to convince the inspector that this fixture is safe for this installation, or go over his head to whoever is the true AHJ for your jurisdiction. At present the inspector has determined that this fixture is not acceptable. End of story unless you can convince him otherwise or there is someone who has the authority to over-rule him. We often forget how much latitude the NEC gives the AHJ. Listing means very little except as a basis for the AHJ to accept equipment. ONLY the AHJ may approve anything.
 
haskindm said:
ONLY the AHJ may approve anything.
Click to expand...

If that is truly the case then we may as well throw out the code book. I don't see how the ahj can say no if it is code compliant unless there is a local amendment.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If that is truly the case then we may as well throw out the code book. I don't see how the ahj can say no if it is code compliant unless there is a local amendment.
Click to expand...


Because it is his responsibility per the NEC to APPROVE equipment. In most cases equipment does NOT need to be UL listed in order to be APPROVED. There are a few instances where the NEC states that equipment must be listed, but they are the exception. Re-read article 90 and 110 paying special attention to the duties of the AHJ. The NEC gives them tremendous responsibility and authority. That is why it is such a travesty that some jurisdictions allow unqualified people to act as the AHJ. Without a qualified AHJ the NEC falls apart. You may not like it but the AHJ can withhold approval for anything that does not meet his/her standards. There is NOTHING in the NEC that limits their discretionary power in this respect. That said, everyone has a boss, and the AHJ must answer to someone (County Commissioners, state board, etc) so they had better be able to substantiate their reasons for refusing to approve listed equipment. It would not take too much of an argument to convince someone that a "bare bulb" fixture in a wet location is not the best idea that anyone ever had regardless of the number of UL labels pasted on it. Many of the 2-prong to 3-prong "cheater" adapters are UL Listed, that does not make them a good idea.
 
The way that I read it...

680.43(B) requires that any lighting fixture installed less than 7'-6" over
the maximum water level of a spa or hot-tub must be GFI protected and if recessed must have a glass or plastic lens and a non-metallic or electrically isolated metal trim.
It must also be rated for damp location.

If 7'-6" or higher (up to 12'), and the fixture is GFI protected, you can use any type fixture that you choose.
This may be what the inspector is citing.

If not GFI protected, the minimum height above the maximum water level is 12' regardless the fixture type.

This brings up something that I was thinking about the other day.

410.4(D) allows me to install a lighting fixture (other than the excluded fixtures) in any location that I choose over a shower or bath tub.
If it's subject to shower spray, it must be rated "wet location", if not, "damp location" is OK....no GFI required (unless specified by manufacturer), and no reference to metallic verses non-metallic.
To me, this reads that I can install any wet-location fixture on the wall, ceiling, (or floor for that matter) without GFI protection.

Why the big difference between a shower/bath and a hot-tub/spa?

Just a opinion

steve
 
Steve you are talking about a hot tub , the op is talking about a hydromassage tub.

Hydromassage tubs fall under part VII of art. 680
 
Last edited:
Dennis Alwon said:
Steve you are talking about a hot tub , the op is talking about a hydromassage tub.

Hydromassage tubs fall under part VII of art. 680
Click to expand...

The OP is also talking about a light in a shower. No GFCI, but required to be suitable for a wet location if subject to spray.
 
haskindm said:
The OP is also talking about a light in a shower. No GFCI, but required to be suitable for a wet location if subject to spray.
Click to expand...

Yes but the OP also states
These are listed for use in wet locations and use a par type lamp with a high temp silicone gasket.
Click to expand...

If it is listed for wet location it doesn't matter if the shower spray hits it.

I believe Fan Tech has a light adapter for the grills that has an exposed mr-16 that is listed for wet location.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top