side stepping arc fault breakers

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jap2525

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I've caught wind of some electricians installing 10amp breakers on the circuits feeding dwelling unit bedrooms in place of arcfaults and the ahj allowing it.The code states 15 or 20 amp circuits when relating to arc fault installations.In my mind an arc fault can happen on any protected circuit regardless of amperage,,,,the whole reason for the arc fault.I do not agree with the 10amp breaker installation in place of the arc fault and feel like some are just finding another way to side step thier way around the code.
What do you all think? is this right or wrong?
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

240.6(A) The smallest standard size breaker allowed is 15 amp. 10 amp breakers are for special situations, not for use in dwellings.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

I don't see where it says this is not allowed.my 2002 says the use of fuses and inverse time circuit breakers with nonstandard ampere ratings shall be permitted,,,,,is this a misprint?
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

210.3 RATING.
This article does not list a 10 amp breaker.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

I'm sorry did you say electricians. I'd call them farking idiots.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

Morning Scott! I agree with you there!

How are 10 amp breakers allowed to be produced if they're not in compliance with 240.6(A)? That's something that has kinda baffled me.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

all good answers but still nothing to defend the arc fault or prove 10a breakers are illegal.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

240.6 states the standard rating for fuses and inverse time circuit breakers shall be considered........it also says at the end that nonstandard ampere rating shall be permitted........although 10 breakers are not listed as standard,I don't see anything that specifically says they cannot be used,although I don't agree with it.Please give me some code proven amo to defend the arc fault.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

I'm not going to side one way or another here, but notice the last sentence in 240.6, this allows using (for an individual branch circuit) an OCPD of a "Nonstandard" rating.

BTW, the 10 amp breakers are listed in the loadcenter sections of SQ D, C-H, and Seimens, catalogs

Roger
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

210.52 a does not say what amperage.
But to bypass using afci by using 10 amp breakers is wrong.They used poor wording but we all know the intent.How will they handle customers complaining over tripping breakers ? :mad:

[ January 22, 2005, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

210.12(A) says "15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected...", it does not say circuits.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

Jim, 210.12 would be the applicable article.

Roger
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

240.6-last sentence:The use of fuses and inverse time circuit breakers with nonstandard ampere rating shall be permitted.....I just came back from the Square "D" site,and the have this 10 amp breaker listed in the Homeline Series..
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

Esox39, I agree with you and this thread is the first I've heard of someone trying to feed the whole BR with a 10 amp breaker. What I heard was hapening before, was people were feeding the Smoke Detectors with a dedicated 10 amp circuit to get around putting them on an AFCI.

Roger
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

I'm not a promoter of that 80% breaker loading rule when you first size cable to carry the calculated load and then size the breaker to protect the wire the this 80% a moot point.
Now consider applying a 10a breaker with #14 wire, are you more apt to be in conflict with the 80% rule?
Also, I fail to understand the reasoning that a 10a breaker would provide even a fraction of the protection as an AFCI would. The AHJ probably doesn't have a clue with regard to the ways an AFCI provides protection which have been discussed at numerous time on this forum.
When one considers applying a 10a breaker, yes, the TC curve is based on 10a and not 15a. In addition, without wasting my time with getting out my trip curves I would almost certainly conclude that a 10a breaker has the same magnetic trip calibration as a 30a rated breaker. Off hand if magnetic calibration if ion the range of 7x 30,
that's 70a (+-25% tolerance of the manufacturer's published trip range per NEMA AB4). To avoid nuisance trips, which cause people to complain, manufacturers have a common practice of calibrating on the high side. On top of that it I would be most certain to conclude that the calibration accuracy my be +-20% at best.
I guess a 10a breaker may trip if the current which feed the arcing fault lasts long enough, Let's see, putting things into perspective, NEMA 4 testing standards state that breaker 250v or less with ratings to 30a must trip in less than 50 sec with 300% of their current rating (120v x 300a=3000w for a duration of 50 seconds). Remember that breakers respond to in I2t curve which means that, since current and time are not proportional, less over current much more time before tripping.
Then, consider that a 10a rated breaker will provide not better instantaneous protection than a 30a breaker.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

Roger. . .The smokes!

Heh! Now that is just plain fascinating.
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

Sorry roger, didn't see your post at time of my posting..

[ January 22, 2005, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
 
Re: side stepping arc fault breakers

esox39,

You are correct in pointing to "15 Amp Outlets" in 210.12(B), however, this isn't refering to receptacle configuration. Rather, "outlet" has the meaning as in Article 100. . .the point on the wiring system that current is taken. . .yada, yada.

IMO, when the branch circuit overcurrent protection is 10 Amps, the "outlet" is a 10 Amp outlet.

As a question to the side of this fascinating turn of thinking. . .can I install a NEMA 5-15R on a branch circuit with 10 A OCP?

Edit of a typo - Al

[ January 22, 2005, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
 
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