Siemens Panel w/ QN breaker

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Okay I'll try...

Busses on the supply side of the service disconnect in an MLO panel (or switchboard) can only see as much current in normal operation as the load breakers allow. If a load breaker draws too much current, the breaker will trip.
Adding a PV source doesn't change that. Any load breaker that draws too much still trips, so the total current the busbar can carry remains the same.

On a load side busbar, say 200A protected by a 200A main breaker, there may be 300A of branch breakers. If you then add a 60A source breaker, the loads can now draw more current than the main breaker allows by itself. So you've defeated the overcurrent protection scheme required elsewhere in the code and 705 places limits on how much you can do that.

There are only a few places in the code where overload protection isn't strictly sized to conductors. 230.90 Exception 3 is one, and the one which makes the least sense in my opinion, at least in its current unlimited form. (Do they really mean you can have 400A of breakers on a 100A service just because of a load calc?) 705 is another. Motors and fixture wires are a couple others I can think of. I don't really see any major philosophical discrepancy here. If anything, I think 230.90 ex3 should be more limited (but I won't be the one asking them to do that).
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Okay I'll try...

Busses on the supply side of the service disconnect in an MLO panel (or switchboard) can only see as much current in normal operation as the load breakers allow. If a load breaker draws too much current, the breaker will trip.
Adding a PV source doesn't change that. Any load breaker that draws too much still trips, so the total current the busbar can carry remains the same.
I'll just add that adding a PV system to the bus actually reduces the current in the part of the bus between the first breaker and the connection with the service conductors as well as in the service conductors themselves.
 

Solar Guy

Member
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Occupation
Solar, power, lighting PE
Look, guys, there is one load breaker on the panel bus, and that is 200A on a 200A bus. You cannot get any more current on the bus than 200A, so there is no way to overload it. At noon the load will receive 40A from the solar and 160A from the utility, and at night zero from the solar and 200A from the utility. At no time is the bus ever overloaded.
 
Look, guys, there is one load breaker on the panel bus, and that is 200A on a 200A bus. You cannot get any more current on the bus than 200A, so there is no way to overload it. At noon the load will receive 40A from the solar and 160A from the utility, and at night zero from the solar and 200A from the utility. At no time is the bus ever overloaded.
In your case, correct, there is no way to put more than 200A on that bus during normal operation. If there were more spaces available then yes you could theoretically overload the bus depending on the size and arrangement of the load breakers - but you can do that on a MLO without solar too.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Look, guys, there is one load breaker on the panel bus, and that is 200A on a 200A bus. You cannot get any more current on the bus than 200A, so there is no way to overload it. At noon the load will receive 40A from the solar and 160A from the utility, and at night zero from the solar and 200A from the utility. At no time is the bus ever overloaded.
Is someone saying different?
 
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