sign power on seperate structure

[georgeswe]

Hi , we are building a new car dealership next to an existing dealership and the plan shows that a circuit from the new building which is on a seperate meter to feed over to a parapit on the exixting dealership to feed a new sign. Currently both dealerships are owned by the same person. So my concern is that if they ever they need to kill power on the old building there will still be a hot circuit feeding from a panel in the new building . What code can I referance that will say whether I can or cannot do this. Both dealerships have their own meters and are seperate addresses.

 

[bphgravity]

Make sure the installation complies with 225.37 of the NEC and it should be acceptable.

 

[charlie b]

Good question! Tough question! You are trapped between 225 and 230.


225 says that if a second building is served from the first building (with only one service between the two buildings, and that one service going to the first building) via an outside feeder or branch circuit, then the second building can have only one such feeder or branch circuit. There are exceptions, but they do not apply here. But in your case, the second building only has one outside branch circuit coming into it.


230 says that a building can have only one service. In your case, the second building has two sources of power, but only one is a service.

Therefore, what you describe is not fobidden by either 225 or 230.


This might require a decision by the AHJ.

 

[iwire]

Good question! Tough question! You are trapped between 225 and 230.

Sorry to say it but we agree again.

I started looking at this question and gave up, nothing seems to directly address this.

 

[neonjoe]

Sorry to say it but we agree again.

I started looking at this question and gave up, nothing seems to directly address this.

I'm surprised by this. I'm out of my league on this one, but doesn't the fact that this is 2 separate parcels come into play? Is there something in the NEC that would address sending a branch circuit from one parcel to another? It seems potentially dangerous to me for the very reason georgeswe stated, " ....need to kill power on the old building there will still be a hot circuit feeding from a panel in the new building ."

 

[bphgravity]

I'm surprised by this. I'm out of my league on this one, but doesn't the fact that this is 2 separate parcels come into play? Is there something in the NEC that would address sending a branch circuit from one parcel to another? It seems potentially dangerous to me for the very reason georgeswe stated, " ....need to kill power on the old building there will still be a hot circuit feeding from a panel in the new building ."

Hence the reason the installation should comply with 225.37 of the NEC.

 

[Jljohnson]

230.72 is the only thing I can come up with that may apply here. As long as you install a disconnect grouped with the main of the new building for the sign circuit, I THINK you would be OK. I agree though, tough question. Why not just feed the sign from the original building service? Is it a lighting control issue?

 

[neonjoe]

Hence the reason the installation should comply with 225.37 of the NEC.

Thanks, Bryan. I guess it would've helped if I'd read 225.37 before I made that statement. I guess my concern is really a design issue then, and not one of safety.

 

[georgeswe]

Yeah my whole concern is the first responder issue they come to fight a fire at old building they turn off main service and start venting the roof where my conduit from an adjacent building which is still enrgized is coming from. ZAP !!! well I would rather feed it from the old building plenty of circuits but the inspector is a combo and wont let me deviate from the plan on anything and the super is afraid to bring this up to him. Basically this is a combo inspector that was looking at the single line where the engineer wrote 4 #3/0 thhn in a 2 1/2 in condit which I ran a 2" on the single line and the inspector made me change the conduit to a 2 1/2 even tho i can fit the wire in a 2" just fine, the guy wont let me be an electrician. It would pretty much take a act of GOD to change the prints because of time restraints and the arc/eng firm is out of state ,anyways thats my dilema ....wish me luck.

 

[charlie b]

Make sure the installation complies with 225.37 of the NEC and it should be acceptable.

I don?t think that that is enough. Both 225 and 230 include cases in which you are allowed to have more than one branch circuit, or more than one feeder, or more than one service, going to a building. The present question does not meet any of those cases. But if you have a circumstance that does meet one of those cases, and if you choose to bring in two feeders, then it is important to notify the world that there are two feeders. That is the purpose of 225.37. It is not there to say that you can install two feeders, or one feeder and one service, anytime and anywhere you wish. It just requires a label for those installations that are allowed, in other parts of the code, to have two feeders.

I still say that this question is not addressed in the code.

Let me add that there is another question in the NEC Topic Area that is similar in nature. Here is a link to that other question.

http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=79312