Signs Of Electrocution

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Ravenvalor

Senior Member
Hello,

Recently an electrician was found deceased next to a live, open electrical panel. The coroners could not find any signs of electrocution so the death was ruled 'natural causes'. If a person dies from a 6 thousandth of an ampere electrical shock that stops his heart will this be noticeable to a coroner?

Thanks.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Hello,

Recently an electrician was found deceased next to a live, open electrical panel. The coroners could not find any signs of electrocution so the death was ruled 'natural causes'. If a person dies from a 6 thousandth of an ampere electrical shock that stops his heart will this be noticeable to a coroner?

Thanks.

yeah, but it can be subtle.

i'd do some reading here:

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-59745-110-9_4
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
One may want to look into other possibilities such as heart conditions, stroke, or other conditions that can bring on a seizure of some sort.

Someone who was otherwise healthy, one's first assumption is electrocution when you come to such a scene.
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
Thanks for the excellent insight. If the cause was determined to be natural causes hopefully the next of kin has life insurance.

I would have assumed most life insurance would cover work-related accidents?

But I would not be surprised if there are myriad ways a coroner can use judgment when there's ambiguity for whichever works out better for someone's paperwork.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
On the more brutal end of electrocution entry and exit wounds exist. These of course, take the path of least resistance , often vasculature , as well as amputations due to it.

Not a good way to go.....


~RJ~
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Hello,

Recently an electrician was found deceased next to a live, open electrical panel. The coroners could not find any signs of electrocution so the death was ruled 'natural causes'. If a person dies from a 6 thousandth of an ampere electrical shock that stops his heart will this be noticeable to a coroner?

Thanks.
A simple 6mA shock CAN stop someone's heart, but it's highly highly unlikely. GF protection outside of the US is 30mA, even for personnel protection. We just suffer from an over abundance of caution because we are such a litigious country. Even at 30mA, to actually kill someone that was healthy, the shock would likely need to be sustained for long enough to cause visible damage to the point of contact.

That said, if he was NOT otherwise healthy, i.e. he had a heart condition already, then a slight shock, incapable of causing visible damage, may have caused a chain link reaction that exacerbated his existing heart condition. Think in terms of a guy who drops dead during a bank robbery not because he was shot, but because he was WORRIED about being shot, and heard a door slam.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
A simple 6mA shock CAN stop someone's heart, but it's highly highly unlikely. GF protection outside of the US is 30mA, even for personnel protection. We just suffer from an over abundance of caution because we are such a litigious country. Even at 30mA, to actually kill someone that was healthy, the shock would likely need to be sustained for long enough to cause visible damage to the point of contact....
I would support expanded ground fault protection if they would raise the threshold to 30mA. We'd all be a lot safer and nuisance tripping wouldn't be a problem.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I would support expanded ground fault protection if they would raise the threshold to 30mA. We'd all be a lot safer and nuisance tripping wouldn't be a problem.
+1

Less nuisance tripping means less people that don't understand them would be less likely to bypass or disable them also. A little moisture in a cord that trips a 6 mA device maybe "burns off" when protected by a 30 mA device.
 

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
A person's heart may simply stop on receiving a shock, not just electrical shock, such as from report of a nearby gun and he may be in suspended animation till death finally ensues unless prompt medical intervention was given to him.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
I would support expanded ground fault protection if they would raise the threshold to 30mA. We'd all be a lot safer and nuisance tripping wouldn't be a problem.

Most of Europe already figured this out, along with OCPD's in descending ma, mains, submains, tec.

Given the device is a toroidal incorporating a preset resistive level , i'm sure it wouldn't be much of a manufacturing feat

~RJ~
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
As does electroporation. (holes in cell walls caused by current flow)
But I'm sure pathologists know to look for it.

oh sure, and you probably know where that concept hails from>>
nikola-tesla-fazedores.jpg



~RJ~
 

meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
Hoping to avoid "topic drift", ....here's my humble opinion. We, as electric utility workers, have been issued AED's (defibrillators) on all of our line trucks. They MAY save a life if administered soon enough. But, the best thing is not to get shocked in the first place. Don't work it hot. I you must, use PPE. I was called out on a homeowner who was remodeling his own house and failed to answer the phone when his daughter called. She called the police, who saw the man laying inside the front door. They called the fire dept. They turned off ALL of the breakers outside by the meter panel and went in and found the guy dead. They called ME to to go and make sure there was no power inside the house before they moved him. There was no evidence of any electrocution. The coroner called me a few days later and asked if there was a way to tell if he'd been electrocuted. The coroner was also the local mortician. Small town. I said unless there were any burn marks, it might be difficult. They said he had been working on wiring in the basement, but they found him in his underwear and stocking feet laying just inside the front door. He was still laying there when I showed up. It was impossible to tell if any circuits had been energized near where he was because the FD had opened all of the breakers. Best we could assume was that he'd gotten across a live circuit which had sent his heart into fibrillation. He made it upstairs to the door before he collapsed and died. Coroner ruled it a "heart attack" for the benefit of the family and their insurance coverage. They never could determine the actual cause of death....but I guess it doesn't really matter.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Hoping to avoid "topic drift", ....here's my humble opinion. We, as electric utility workers, have been issued AED's (defibrillators) on all of our line trucks. They MAY save a life if administered soon enough. But, the best thing is not to get shocked in the first place. Don't work it hot. I you must, use PPE. I was called out on a homeowner who was remodeling his own house and failed to answer the phone when his daughter called. She called the police, who saw the man laying inside the front door. They called the fire dept. They turned off ALL of the breakers outside by the meter panel and went in and found the guy dead. They called ME to to go and make sure there was no power inside the house before they moved him. There was no evidence of any electrocution. The coroner called me a few days later and asked if there was a way to tell if he'd been electrocuted. The coroner was also the local mortician. Small town. I said unless there were any burn marks, it might be difficult. They said he had been working on wiring in the basement, but they found him in his underwear and stocking feet laying just inside the front door. He was still laying there when I showed up. It was impossible to tell if any circuits had been energized near where he was because the FD had opened all of the breakers. Best we could assume was that he'd gotten across a live circuit which had sent his heart into fibrillation. He made it upstairs to the door before he collapsed and died. Coroner ruled it a "heart attack" for the benefit of the family and their insurance coverage. They never could determine the actual cause of death....but I guess it doesn't really matter.
First, they needed a medical examiner to examine that victim.

He could have had a heart attack, stroke, etc. If he did receive a significant shock it may not have instantly killed him, but could have created other complications that eventually killed him.
 
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