Simple new single family home question

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khixxx

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BF PA
I'm starting to dip into one family new construction. I never did a single family new construction and i was looking for some tricks/tips to make the project go faster, and to cut cost. 1)What is the best way to run romex (though the studs, or up in the attic/basement then to the device)?
2) when do you fire calk an opening?
3) When running romex in a bundle lets say 5 romex raceways though joists over 24" do you derate the conductors?
4)what are the requirements for running romex in an attic? i know its 6' from the opening to the attic but i seen alot of romex just laying up in the attic not fastened in place. whats the distance romex needs to be fastened at in a attic when the romex is ran on the joists when the attic is not for storage use? any other tips or tricks would be nice to hear to. thanks
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Best advice would be to try and talk with the local ahj.House wiring codes keep changing and local ahj all have there own things they pick on.What i find saves times is if a guy goes up a ladder then finish every detail while there.Do not mount box then go back and wire it.As to how to run the wire that depends on each hous and wall.After some time at it you will figure out how to balance time and wire.Are you working alone ? or can you perhaps hire a romex man with a few years of time at it.It is hard to win at residential untill you build up speed.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

To save money on the job of running non-metallic sheath cable run it as direct as possible, for this week copper jumped 20%.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Originally posted by khixxx:
Click to expand...
1)What is the best way to run romex (though the studs, or up in the attic/basement then to the device)?Every type of construction is different. I use whatever method is fastest. On a one story, this often means going through the top plate into the attic area and back down to the next device (especially if there are windows and doors between). If the next device is just several clear studs away, go through the studs. Whatever is fastest and easiest on a case by case basis.
2) when do you fire calk an opening?On new work, I never do. This is normally gotten by the insulating sub. Top and bottom plate penetrations.
3) When running romex in a bundle lets say 5 romex raceways though joists over 24" do you derate the conductors?There's some controversy over that, but my inspectors don't call this bundling since the cables do have interstitial air space between the studs.
4)what are the requirements for running romex in an attic? i know its 6' from the opening to the attic but i seen alot of romex just laying up in the attic not fastened in place. whats the distance romex needs to be fastened at in a attic when the romex is ran on the joists when the attic is not for storage use?Supported, but only secured near the device boxes. Cables laying on the truss chords in a non-storage attic are supported.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

khixxx,

Take a look at this thread for some good information.

I agree with Jim, it wouldn't be a bad idea to hire an experienced residential guy to help jumpstart this new approach to your business. :)
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

I also agree with Jim.

Residential wiring is demanding in that, you get out of the truck running and run to the end of the day.

Your first few houses will be a learning curve and can be discouraging, but when you get familiar with this type of work it can be great.

I would go back to residential in a heartbeat if I was younger. The days went by in a flash unlike some that last into next week for some commercial and industrial tasks.

Roger
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Hey thanks for the replies. I am a one man shop, but i pick up some helpers though friends and good workers in the past. The thread was very helpful. i tried to do a search but i couldn't narrow it down. I'm 25 so the running around isn't that much of a problem, hopfully when i get older i can just sit and tell others what to do :)forsure this is a learning curve this project is for a friend that wants to help :( its a TM job so we'll see.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

When pricing it is easy to forget how much time really goes into wiring a house. Seems pretty quick and straightforward but when it comes down to it there is alot of work involved. The rough wiring is pretty basic but the stuff that can eat a lot of time are heating/cooling systems, cutting in the service, well, septic system, outside lights and receptacles etc. I like to think I am pretty quick and efficient as far as getting the job done goes but these things are always a time killer.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Another good trick is never go to truck empty handed.If you need to go get something then take something back that your finished with.It is a racing game and day goes to fast.Friday i tried to finish a trim with another great electrician but he was a commerciale guy so speed just wasn't there.Do not go to truck any more than you must,combine the trips to get more than 1 thing.My method on rough is to box all low stuff first.Then drill the place out.Take tool belt off it will slow you down.For box height use your hammer cut to size,i use 12 inches to bottom.Carry box of box's under 1 arm and pitch them to were they are going,after a while you will just walk in room and toss them,then go nail them up.Another disadvantage is you have no gang box.Go into this slow and plan on 10 hour days at no or low profit.Takes time to figure out what works for you.I prefer to pull all the wire first then staple and cut in,other do 1 room at a time.Your age will be in your favor.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

secured near the device boxes. Cables laying on the truss chords in a non-storage attic are supported.
Click to expand...
Article 334.30 requires that type NM cable be supported and secured at intervals not exceeding 4.5'. I don't see how just laying them across a bunch of joists satisfies the secured requirement of this section.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

"secured " does not say stapled or fastened.Been laying them up there for 23 years.Actually i will argue that its safer without the staple.Getting walked on will do far less damage.So it lays up there,where do you think it will go ? Pretty secure in my opinion and it is supported.

[ August 20, 2005, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Originally posted by jimwalker:
"secured " does not say stapled or fastened.
Click to expand...
Actually it does say stapled, along with a few other methods. :p


334.30 Securing and Supporting.
Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41/2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every cabinet, box, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.
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Re: Simple new single family home question

O.K. all the plot just gotten more complex. I just got back from visiting the Home owner and it turns out this home is a structional insulation panel home (SIP) all the wires have to be fished, I have now clue how you can do this b.c. i thought during the rough inspection all wire needs to be exposed for the inspector? Any thoughts? I'm going to post more question about this home on the NEC forum.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

"hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable ."

I see your point Bob but does a truss not qualify as similar to a hanger.Only time i ever seen them stapled above trusses is if the wire is being squared off rather than point to point.Not sure about other states but in 23 years never got tagged on this.Do you see my concern of them getting more chance of harm with a staple ? Now if the wire is in an area that it might get pulled near a truss plate or into a V i will add a staple.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

A truss isn't a hanger. By laying the cable on top of a truss it would be supported but not secured. NM cable is required to be secured by one of the methods that Bob has mentioned. Although you've never been red tagged your method does violate Article 334.30.

[ August 20, 2005, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Originally posted by khixxx:
I'm going to post more question about this home on the NEC forum.
Click to expand...
For those interested, the SIP discussion is going on here.

Looks like 334 is asking for another proposal! :D

Edit Error L

[ August 20, 2005, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

khixxx, I made some romex spinners that you put though the center of the romex and hang on a rafter. You can buy them at the local supply store.(I am to cheap and made them for $15 a piece verus the $100 at the supply house.) They will pay for themselves in one job. They probably save me about 25% in labor because you never have to untwist the romex.
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Hey highkvoltage what material did you make your spinners out of? If i'm thinking right a spinner is use to pull romex off a spool right?
 
Re: Simple new single family home question

Back in the 70's in Norfolk, Va Beach area some of the inspectors would carry a stick around and push up on the romex in the rafters. If they were not stapled, RED TAG.

Personally, I don't see the need to staple up there unless you are trying to keep it tucked away from something.
 
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