SIMPush fittings

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James L

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Anybody ever use SIMPush conduit fittings?

I became curious after seeing push-on gas fittings. Are they made for EMT only, or also rigid?

Are there also couplings? What about elbows?

I'm still looking, and just curious. If you've used them, how does materials cost compare with labor savings?

Any issues pulling wire?

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Guess trying to make installation easier for DIY and handiman. I've used sharkbite on plumbing, it is not good if there is any torquing of pipe to fitting. I would question how secure a connection of ridged would one make.
 
SSDriver said:
I just saw some at lowes the other day. I can't image GRC being "rigid" anymore. On plumbing sharkbites wobble and spin like crazy.
Click to expand...

In a Sharkbite the end has to be cut perfectly square and smooth because the fitting holds the end of the pipe against a gasket under pressure. It can flip around as long as the last 1/4” stays pressed into the gasket. The plumber applies the pressure. The fitting just keeps it from backing out.

In contrast conduit fittings are more or less structural. The conduit is held “loosely” into the fitting and the length it is inserted and the fit tightness controls how “rigid” it is. Threads, compression sleeves, or set screws just keep the conduit from backing out but how much pressure it holds is not a critical concern since conduit is not intended to be watertight (except maybe Robroy and similar products). Fittings don’t have to be threaded and we don’t use thread sealants or pipe dope.
 
paulengr said:
In a Sharkbite the end has to be cut perfectly square and smooth because the fitting holds the end of the pipe against a gasket under pressure. It can flip around as long as the last 1/4” stays pressed into the gasket. The plumber applies the pressure. The fitting just keeps it from backing out.

In contrast conduit fittings are more or less structural. The conduit is held “loosely” into the fitting and the length it is inserted and the fit tightness controls how “rigid” it is. Threads, compression sleeves, or set screws just keep the conduit from backing out but how much pressure it holds is not a critical concern since conduit is not intended to be watertight (except maybe Robroy and similar products). Fittings don’t have to be threaded and we don’t use thread sealants or pipe dope.
Click to expand...
I'm wondering how well it would hold together once somebody starts pulling wires through it. I'm thinking more about elbows, if they are available. But I haven't seen any. So maybe using straight pipe and pre-made factory bends is the only way to do it. But I don't know if they even make couplings. I haven't looked into it enough
 
paulengr said:
In a Sharkbite the end has to be cut perfectly square and smooth because the fitting holds the end of the pipe against a gasket under pressure. It can flip around as long as the last 1/4” stays pressed into the gasket. The plumber applies the pressure. The fitting just keeps it from backing out.

In contrast conduit fittings are more or less structural. The conduit is held “loosely” into the fitting and the length it is inserted and the fit tightness controls how “rigid” it is. Threads, compression sleeves, or set screws just keep the conduit from backing out but how much pressure it holds is not a critical concern since conduit is not intended to be watertight (except maybe Robroy and similar products). Fittings don’t have to be threaded and we don’t use thread sealants or pipe dope.
Click to expand...
Using either threaded rigid couplings or the Threadless compression style I have never had a rigid system that felt wobbly or loose. My concern wasn't as much about the fitting pulling directly out, but more about the stiffness of the system. I can run a conduit strap then 4' of pipe go around the 90 have another couple of feet and then a strap. If I grab that elbow and shake it with rigid conduit it will not move. In the instances were I've seen sharkbites on copper plumbing, anything not supported directly next to either side of the shark bite fitting you can grab it, wobble it, and shake it with ease. Any vibration and the pipe moves on its own.

Many places where rigid conduit is installed it's due to reasons where you either need better mechanical protection or the stiffness of the system to protect it. If the system is wobbly at joints in between long stretches of supports or between an offset(seems very possible) which is code compliant with rigid, I can only imagine the fittings eventually will get damaged or break. Maybe the socket depths are deeper on these fittings for rigid conduit than copper tubing which might help with the stiffness. But I would imagine it would still be able to rotate and spin around offsets, elbows, and kicks.
 
paulengr said:
In a Sharkbite the end has to be cut perfectly square and smooth because the fitting holds the end of the pipe against a gasket under pressure.
Click to expand...

Not quite. You can leave a slanted cut on the end of PEX and still get the Shark Bite to seal, as the actual seal is an o-ring on the OD of the PEX (or other pipe, copper, PB, etc) back from the end of the pipe. If there is damage to the OD area of the pipe, it can leak. BTDT, as I have used them on R&D projects where we install, remove, install again, etc, etc, etc. The fittings have never worn out so far... but the pipe has gotten damaged from the stainless steel fingers that grab it. ;)
 
SSDriver said:
Using either threaded rigid couplings or the Threadless compression style I have never had a rigid system that felt wobbly or loose. My concern wasn't as much about the fitting pulling directly out, but more about the stiffness of the system. I can run a conduit strap then 4' of pipe go around the 90 have another couple of feet and then a strap. If I grab that elbow and shake it with rigid conduit it will not move. In the instances were I've seen sharkbites on copper plumbing, anything not supported directly next to either side of the shark bite fitting you can grab it, wobble it, and shake it with ease. Any vibration and the pipe moves on its own.

Many places where rigid conduit is installed it's due to reasons where you either need better mechanical protection or the stiffness of the system to protect it. If the system is wobbly at joints in between long stretches of supports or between an offset(seems very possible) which is code compliant with rigid, I can only imagine the fittings eventually will get damaged or break. Maybe the socket depths are deeper on these fittings for rigid conduit than copper tubing which might help with the stiffness. But I would imagine it would still be able to rotate and spin around offsets, elbows, and kicks.
Click to expand...
They say the fittings carry the ground through, so I can't imagine they'd be wibbly. But I'm like you, I can't get SharkBites out of my mind
 
James L said:
They say the fittings carry the ground through, so I can't imagine they'd be wibbly. But I'm like you, I can't get SharkBites out of my mind
Click to expand...
I would like to hear from someone who has used them and hear what they have to say. My concerns are just based off of similar products ,but I have no experience with these fittings.
 
James L said:
I'm wondering how well it would hold together once somebody starts pulling wires through it. I'm thinking more about elbows, if they are available. But I haven't seen any. So maybe using straight pipe and pre-made factory bends is the only way to do it. But I don't know if they even make couplings. I haven't looked into it enough
Click to expand...
The website is listing elbows LB, LL, LR, C BODY, T body, pull el, offsets, box connectors, riged to EMT, watertight, connectors for EMT, rigid, ENT, NMLT and PVC. Some are very limited size though. I would like to hear first hand experience with them.
 
Fred B said:
The website is listing elbows LB, LL, LR, C BODY, T body, pull el, offsets, box connectors, riged to EMT, watertight, connectors for EMT, rigid, ENT, NMLT and PVC. Some are very limited size though. I would like to hear first hand experience with them.
Click to expand...
I'd also like to hear from somebody who's used them.
 
SSDriver said:
Using either threaded rigid couplings or the Threadless compression style I have never had a rigid system that felt wobbly or loose. My concern wasn't as much about the fitting pulling directly out, but more about the stiffness of the system. I can run a conduit strap then 4' of pipe go around the 90 have another couple of feet and then a strap. If I grab that elbow and shake it with rigid conduit it will not move. In the instances were I've seen sharkbites on copper plumbing, anything not supported directly next to either side of the shark bite fitting you can grab it, wobble it, and shake it with ease. Any vibration and the pipe moves on its own.

Many places where rigid conduit is installed it's due to reasons where you either need better mechanical protection or the stiffness of the system to protect it. If the system is wobbly at joints in between long stretches of supports or between an offset(seems very possible) which is code compliant with rigid, I can only imagine the fittings eventually will get damaged or break. Maybe the socket depths are deeper on these fittings for rigid conduit than copper tubing which might help with the stiffness. But I would imagine it would still be able to rotate and spin around offsets, elbows, and kicks.
Click to expand...

In welded pipe mostly there are two systems, butt welds and socket welds. Socket welds the pipe goes into a socket and then a tack holds it in place. Butt welds are exactly what it sounds like. Sockets look very impressive but really aren’t that strong. It pins the pipe in all directions but the force holding it in isn’t that much. This is exactly like conduit except we use mechanical joints. All the rigidity comes from the fittings holding the pipe straight.
 
paulengr said:
In welded pipe mostly there are two systems, butt welds and socket welds. Socket welds the pipe goes into a socket and then a tack holds it in place. Butt welds are exactly what it sounds like. Sockets look very impressive but really aren’t that strong. It pins the pipe in all directions but the force holding it in isn’t that much. This is exactly like conduit except we use mechanical joints. All the rigidity comes from the fittings holding the pipe straight.
Click to expand...
One question.
Have you ever used a shark bite?

. There is absolutely no rigidity in it at all. You can throw all the engineer stuff at me you want, but if you have ever used a shark bite you will know why I have concerns. These fittings look exactly like a shark bite fitting. They may have made some changes and that is what I'm trying to figure out and see if someone has installed one. On straight runs with proper supports its probably fine. I'm concerned about the mechanical rooms and industrial settings where conduit doesn't only run in a straight line.
 
SSDriver said:
One question.
Have you ever used a shark bite?

. There is absolutely no rigidity in it at all. You can throw all the engineer stuff at me you want, but if you have ever used a shark bite you will know why I have concerns. These fittings look exactly like a shark bite fitting. They may have made some changes and that is what I'm trying to figure out and see if someone has installed one. On straight runs with proper supports its probably fine. I'm concerned about the mechanical rooms and industrial settings where conduit doesn't only run in a straight line.
Click to expand...

I have used tons of sharkbites, competitors, and traditional screw together compression fittings. I was a contractor before I went to school. Copper, PVC, CPVC, PEX even before Lowe’s carried it. The sharkbite has an internal sleeve piece with the teeth in it and a gasket inside an outer housing. The internal sleeve floats. So there is no rigidity and you shouldn’t expect any. PEX is really what popularized sharkbites because the traditional expanders and crimped sleeves are cheap but the tooling is at Greenlee knockout prices.

These are different. Look at the catalog page 5.


It’s an aluminum body with the ring to retract the teeth, a gasket, and a neck to hold the conduit. Depending on how tight and how long that internal neck is controls how rigid the conduit is.

The cleats are supposed to be good for 300 lbs. Thats about what you get with threaded 3/4” IMC. 1/2” can bend or pull apart if somebody stands on it where they can’t easily tear up 3/4”. To me that’s the real test. You can have all the plant rules you want but the fact is at some point your conduit job is going to be someone’s ladder. I can bend EMT easily up to 1” without much effort and 1/2” IMC and RMC. But bump those up one size to 3/4” IMC/RMC or 1-1/4” EMT and you can still bend and break them with effort but they will survive in most industrial plants even if they get used as a ladder or run over with smaller fork trucks. So the catalog specs at least sound pretty good.

The catalog shows all conduit bodies, elbows, and couplings. So if you haven’t seen one it’s just because the supply house doesn’t stock them.

I haven’t bought any yet because I haven’t seen them or went looking. But now you have me curious enough to maybe rig up some tests.
 
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