Single Phase Loading a Three Phase Generator

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I need to provide a backup generator for a single phase 480/240V-240/120V transformer and 120/240V lighting panel. Originally, my thought had been to use a three phase 480/277V backup generator and transfer switch ahead of the transformer, since the old drawings showed additional motor loads. After a visit to the site, it appears that the motors were removed, and the only load is in fact the single phase panel. Can I still use the three phase generator? The load would be extremely unbalanced with two legs carrying all the load, but would it still operate safely?
 
I was considering a single phase 120/240v generator if the a three phase generator isn't practical, but there's a definite possibility that the client will add three phase loads in the future. I'll contact the gen rep to get his input. Thank you!
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
I was considering a single phase 120/240v generator if the a three phase generator isn't practical, but there's a definite possibility that the client will add three phase loads in the future. I'll contact the gen rep to get his input. Thank you!

Are you supplying the generator?
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
Check the particular generator that you are considering.

Many generators have 6 '120V' (actually 120-140V or so,depending on the excitation control) coils which can be connected in different ways to yield everything from 120/240V single phase to 480/277V wye.

If you select the correct generator than you can supply their single phase load now, and reconnect later if they need 3 phase.

-Jon
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Check the particular generator that you are considering.

Many generators have 6 '120V' (actually 120-140V or so,depending on the excitation control) coils which can be connected in different ways to yield everything from 120/240V single phase to 480/277V wye.

If you select the correct generator than you can supply their single phase load now, and reconnect later if they need 3 phase.

-Jon
+1
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
If there is a 480V service to the building I can't see the sense in buying a 240V generator unless the budget won't allow for anything else; there has to be three phase power being used somewhere and unbalancing a generator is not the end of world for it.

Buying a generator with access to all twelve leads is not a bad compromise except that one is going to end up spending extra money on a new transfer switch and other associated gear plus the labor for all the rework in the future, and when it comes to stuff like this future gear and labor always costs more.
 
I would consider as mentioned, not focus on what might happen, plan your piping and wire sizes, ATS etc. and If the option to upgrade the generator to a three phase does come, your initial install for the single phase generator will be a lot easier to manage and not add doubt which helps convince the inspectors if applicable.

Your initial install of conduit and wiring will be more than enough in size and capacity, to enable a smooth 3 phase gen/panel install, should they decide to upgrade.

You can always add additional wires or boxes now if you know or have ownership in this current and future process and consider that when your sizing the boxes and your breaker AIC ratings, pad sizing and grounding.

Plan on future use of the single phase generator and panel if they decide to upgrade.

Typical emergency lighting circuits for small businesses or large, includes some type of interim battery back up so there's never a loss of the emergency lighting.

By the time they decide to upgrade, regardless if the three phase infrastructure as mentioned above has access to multiple taps for voltage requirements today or is an option, I would not personally install it that way as, you put yourself at risk financially if it has issues and adding a potential load imbalance to the mix.








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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Why not present owner with costs, explain why one system won't run this or that and the other one will and let them decide which one they want? If you are familiar with their operations it makes it easier for you to know their potential needs. If they should make a major expansion the three phase option may not be enough capacity anyway, make sure they know what it may or may not be able to run.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Depending on the size of the generator, you may find that there is very little difference in the costs of a 12 lead, 480 volt, 3 phase generator and a single phase 120/240 volt generator. If the costs are close, I would use the 3 phase one connected in a double delta to provide 120/240.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Depending on the size of the generator, you may find that there is very little difference in the costs of a 12 lead, 480 volt, 3 phase generator and a single phase 120/240 volt generator. If the costs are close, I would use the 3 phase one connected in a double delta to provide 120/240.
Just an added note that there is a reduction in output power when configured for 120/240 compared to 480V output.
 

Ingenieur

Senior Member
Location
Earth
Why not present owner with costs, explain why one system won't run this or that and the other one will and let them decide which one they want? If you are familiar with their operations it makes it easier for you to know their potential needs. If they should make a major expansion the three phase option may not be enough capacity anyway, make sure they know what it may or may not be able to run.


This
give him the options
costs
benefits
drawbacks

1 phase set
3 phase set
1 phase with upgraded cnd for future 3 ph
 
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