Six handle rule

[greg furey]

Hi all how are you, love the posts.on here. Looking for info on how many breakers can be in a subpanel, if a main breaker is needed , if at all. Some one told me that over six breakers in a subpanel in the same building does not need a main, code reference would be great. 2017 nec c Connecticut finialy adopted.this March 1 2019. Thanks and appreciate all the info on here. I have been a member for a couple of years. I have been an industrial electrician for about 30 years now and still learning take care

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[electrofelon]

Hi all how are you, love the posts.on here. Looking for info on how many breakers can be in a subpanel, if a main breaker is needed , if at all. Some one told me that over six breakers in a subpanel in the same building does not need a main, code reference would be great. 2017 nec c Connecticut finialy adopted.this March 1 2019. Thanks and appreciate all the info on here. I have been a member for a couple of years. I have been an industrial electrician for about 30 years now and still learning take care

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

A subpanel located in the same structure never needs a main breaker, unless you get into more complex situations like using the tap rules, transformers, supplying a small panel board with a large feeder.... 408.36 is your reference for most of those situations

A sub in a detached structure needs a main breaker if there isnt already a disconnecting means (225.31).

Note: a panelboard never actually needs a main breaker, it can be next to/remote from the panelboard, but using a MB is usually the most economical.

Edit: just to be clear, the disconnecting means for a building can consist of 6 or less switches just like a service 225.33

 

[augie47]

There is a basic rule, 408.36, that panels must have a main either integral with the panel or in the supply (feeder) to the panel. There is an exception for 230.71, service panels, that employ the six disconnect rule.
If the panel serves as the disconnect in a separate structure, 225.33 allows up to six disconnecting means.

opps posted on top of electrofelon

 

[LarryFine]

The six-throws-of-the-hand allowance is what made split-bus panels feasible back in the day.

 

[tom baker]

And I belive the six disconnect rule goes away with the 2020 NEC.
If you have a panelboard with no main, its pretty simple to backfeed a breaker, with a tie down kit, for a main. Although not required it is nice to have

 

[romex jockey]

And I belive the six disconnect rule goes away with the 2020 NEC.

interesting

rumor has it the Waldorf Astoria fire spawned the rational originally....~RJ~

 

[norcal]

interesting

rumor has it the Waldorf Astoria fire spawned the rational originally....~RJ~

Thought that the Waldorf Astoria fire was the reason for the former 42 circuit rule for panelboards.

 

[GerryB]

Hi all how are you, love the posts.on here. Looking for info on how many breakers can be in a subpanel, if a main breaker is needed , if at all. Some one told me that over six breakers in a subpanel in the same building does not need a main, code reference would be great. . Thanks and appreciate all the info on here. I have been a member for a couple of years. I have been an industrial electrician for about 30 years now and still learning take care

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

2017 nec c Connecticut finialy adopted.this March 1 2019 Actually Ct. adopted it Oct 1, 2018. Pretty sure they adopted the 2014 in Oct of 2016. They may be trying to catch up in 2020.

 

[electrofelon]

And I belive the six disconnect rule goes away with the 2020 NEC.
If you have a panelboard with no main, its pretty simple to backfeed a breaker, with a tie down kit, for a main. Although not required it is nice to have

how likely is that looking at this point? I investigated and there are indeed several proposals. I completely disagree with the reasons given, particularly that "it is no longer relevant." I might just quit the trade if this goes through.

 

[zbang]

interestingrumor has it the Waldorf Astoria fire spawned the rational originally....~RJ

Also interesting, I'm don't think I've heard that, when/where was that one? I'd like to look it up.

 

[romex jockey]

Also interesting, I'm don't think I've heard that, when/where was that one? I'd like to look it up.

I wish i could as well, but that's the thing with all rumours, the source is always nefarious

One thing we can hang hat on is, the fire service spawns a lot of nec codes

~S~

 

[norcal]

And I belive the six disconnect rule goes away with the 2020 NEC.
If you have a panelboard with no main, its pretty simple to backfeed a breaker, with a tie down kit, for a main. Although not required it is nice to have

A tie down kit, retainer kit, is only required for plug in breakers, not bolt on breakers.

 

[kwired]

And I belive the six disconnect rule goes away with the 2020 NEC.
If you have a panelboard with no main, its pretty simple to backfeed a breaker, with a tie down kit, for a main. Although not required it is nice to have

Just six disconnects in one panelboard/switchboard? Or is six separate disconnecting means prohibited also?

2-200 amp main breaker panels for service equipment is pretty common. Putting a 400 amp disconnecting means ahead of them is a waste most those cases.

 

[electrofelon]

Just six disconnects in one panelboard/switchboard? Or is six separate disconnecting means prohibited also?

2-200 amp main breaker panels for service equipment is pretty common. Putting a 400 amp disconnecting means ahead of them is a waste most those cases.

The proposals I saw still allowed multiple discos if in separate enclosures.

 

[ggunn]

Just six disconnects in one panelboard/switchboard? Or is six separate disconnecting means prohibited also?

2-200 amp main breaker panels for service equipment is pretty common. Putting a 400 amp disconnecting means ahead of them is a waste most those cases.

If there are main breakers in the panels, the load breaker count is irrelevant to the six handle rule. Your handle count is two.

 

[kwired]

If there are main breakers in the panels, the load breaker count is irrelevant to the six handle rule. Your handle count is two.

I know, I was asking if they got rid of six disconnect rule altogether or just six disconnects in a single panelboard/switchboard.

electrofelon

The proposals I saw still allowed multiple discos if in separate enclosures.



​

Sounds like a meter with two 200 amp mains all in one assembly would no longer be allowed, or even a six pack meter center with main for each meter?

 

[ggunn]

I know, I was asking if they got rid of six disconnect rule altogether or just six disconnects in a single panelboard/switchboard.


Sounds like a meter with two 200 amp mains all in one assembly would no longer be allowed, or even a six pack meter center with main for each meter?

The rule is 6 disconnects per source of power. Of course, since POCO's are not bound by the NEC, they can have all the connections they want on their side of the meter.

 

[kwired]

The rule is 6 disconnects per source of power. Of course, since POCO's are not bound by the NEC, they can have all the connections they want on their side of the meter.

That is the rules now but they are allegedly making a change to this for 2020 and I was asking for clarification on exactly what will change.