size g.e.c to driven rods
- Thread starter ners
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peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
The GEC which is the sole connection to a ground rod is never required to be larger than #6. You are correct.
The GEC which is the sole connection to a ground rod is never required to be larger than #6. You are correct.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Some areas enforce that the grounding conductor has to be sized in direct relation to incoming feeder size,Here in the city of Tampa the ahj wants 1/0 for a 400,go 15 miles down the road #2 go 30 miles more #4 then next county says #6.Check with local jurisdiction and when done make a list of who wants what.Gets confusing trying to remember
Some areas enforce that the grounding conductor has to be sized in direct relation to incoming feeder size,Here in the city of Tampa the ahj wants 1/0 for a 400,go 15 miles down the road #2 go 30 miles more #4 then next county says #6.Check with local jurisdiction and when done make a list of who wants what.Gets confusing trying to remember
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Allen, what do you mean "Check with the local jurisdiction?"
The NEC spells it out in plain English (unsual I know.) The AHJ can't require the connection to the ground rod to be larger than #6 unless they have an ill-conceived local ammendment.
It sounds like these inspectors are misapplying the tables in article 250.
Allen, what do you mean "Check with the local jurisdiction?"
The NEC spells it out in plain English (unsual I know.) The AHJ can't require the connection to the ground rod to be larger than #6 unless they have an ill-conceived local ammendment.
It sounds like these inspectors are misapplying the tables in article 250.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Im really suprised that type of crap is still going on up there in Tampa. Here in the Gulf-Coast Division of the IAEI, which includes all jurisdictions south of Sarasota, we have been making great efforts to obtain a consensus among all area jurisdictions to ensure uniformity with inspections. The IAEI meetings are about the best forum to voice your concerns with local enforcement of inspections.
Im really suprised that type of crap is still going on up there in Tampa. Here in the Gulf-Coast Division of the IAEI, which includes all jurisdictions south of Sarasota, we have been making great efforts to obtain a consensus among all area jurisdictions to ensure uniformity with inspections. The IAEI meetings are about the best forum to voice your concerns with local enforcement of inspections.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Morons. I guess I don't have anything constructive to add.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Scott, your position on this is a little ambiguous. Could you clarify what you mean?
Thanks.
[ February 28, 2005, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
Scott, your position on this is a little ambiguous. Could you clarify what you mean?
Thanks.
[ February 28, 2005, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Yeah Scott has that problem of hiding his feelings.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
If it was as uniform as it should be then our tag fees would go dooooowwwwnnn City of tampa requires ufer bond 2 ground rods and water if CU.Hillsboro county requires only 2 ground rods no ufer and water if CU,pasco county requires ufer no ground rods and water if CU,hernando county requires ufer 1 ground rod and water if CU. Oh uniform they all want CU. if there, what was I thinking In all this there are individual municipalities that have thier own quirks.City of Duneedon measures kitchen counter top receptacle spacing from the front edge of the counter to corner in back wall then horiz. and the return to the front of the counter Was once tagged in the field for staples not tight enough3 12/2`s under a seu staple and not tight enough confused: I have heard all this talk of uniformed building code here.I haven`t seen it
If it was as uniform as it should be then our tag fees would go dooooowwwwnnn
City of tampa requires ufer bond 2 ground rods and water if CU.Hillsboro county requires only 2 ground rods no ufer and water if CU,pasco county requires ufer no ground rods and water if CU,hernando county requires ufer 1 ground rod and water if CU. Oh uniform they all want CU. if there, what was I thinking In all this there are individual municipalities that have thier own quirks.City of Duneedon measures kitchen counter top receptacle spacing from the front edge of the counter to corner in back wall then horiz. and the return to the front of the counter Was once tagged in the field for staples not tight enough3 12/2`s under a seu staple and not tight enough confused: I have heard all this talk of uniformed building code here.I haven`t seen it
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Allen, would it be too much to ask to put an occasional break in your paragraphs?
It would make them a lot easier to read.
[ February 28, 2005, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
Allen, would it be too much to ask to put an occasional break in your paragraphs?
It would make them a lot easier to read.
[ February 28, 2005, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Sorry but when I get on a roll I ramble on and on
Sorry but when I get on a roll I ramble on and on
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
If all other NEC requirements are met, then your
gec to the made electrode need never be larger than #6 cu. If the EE on the drawings asks for larger, then your at the mercy of the stamped drawings. Most EE base all gec on the size of the largest service conductor. They also confuse gec
with equipment ground based on standard ocp!!
If all other NEC requirements are met, then your
gec to the made electrode need never be larger than #6 cu. If the EE on the drawings asks for larger, then your at the mercy of the stamped drawings. Most EE base all gec on the size of the largest service conductor. They also confuse gec
with equipment ground based on standard ocp!!
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
The wire has to be sized for the thing like it says in that book.
busman
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Virginia
- Occupation
- Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
I would add that according to 250.64(B), the GEC would need procection at #6 if it is exposed to physical damage. A #4 only requires protection if exposed to severe physical damage. For this reason I normally use #4 for residential services.
Mark
I would add that according to 250.64(B), the GEC would need procection at #6 if it is exposed to physical damage. A #4 only requires protection if exposed to severe physical damage. For this reason I normally use #4 for residential services.
Mark
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Roger do i insist I see it in writing no !!!This is backwoods to the utmost definition.Just what i want to do is push the envelope with a guy that will be inspecting 5 or 600 homes in the next 3 months for us.Call it caving in if you like but all I want is for them to pass rough/final.That way the Builder can get frame and final building inspections.here we can debate it till the cows come home in reality if you buck to hard the only thing you do is P off a vital part fo the domino effect
Roger do i insist I see it in writing no !!!This is backwoods to the utmost definition.Just what i want to do is push the envelope with a guy that will be inspecting 5 or 600 homes in the next 3 months for us.Call it caving in if you like but all I want is for them to pass rough/final.That way the Builder can get frame and final building inspections.here we can debate it till the cows come home in reality if you buck to hard the only thing you do is P off a vital part fo the domino effect
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Allen, thats just plain sad that you let this go on. You talk about losing money on call backs related to the Telco and painters, yet let some uneducated so called inspector cause you to loose money and you just say oh well.
Roger
Allen, thats just plain sad that you let this go on. You talk about losing money on call backs related to the Telco and painters, yet let some uneducated so called inspector cause you to loose money and you just say oh well.
Roger
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
Allen
I agree with Roger, the more you cave in to inspectors that say "I like see" or "the code says" or my favorite "if I were doing this" The more crap they will make you eat. Everyone has a boss and if they start holding a grudge on inspections then it is time to call them. Now I am not saying rant and rave like a mad man. But given the opportunity to "discuss a violation so that it does not happen again". Is something I have found very helpful to both myself and our inspectors.
Bottom line for all of us is that in order for this standard to be a standard it has to be read like one. In this case the rule IMO is not subject to interpretation. Maybe like others have said the AHJ just doesn't know more than the tables in 250. Maybe he is inspecting on "this is the way I was taught by grandpa sitting on a barstool"
Make them explain in writing what the violation is. Back water home town or under the big city lights it is still the same standard written in the same words.
Allen
I agree with Roger, the more you cave in to inspectors that say "I like see" or "the code says" or my favorite "if I were doing this" The more crap they will make you eat. Everyone has a boss and if they start holding a grudge on inspections then it is time to call them. Now I am not saying rant and rave like a mad man. But given the opportunity to "discuss a violation so that it does not happen again". Is something I have found very helpful to both myself and our inspectors.
Bottom line for all of us is that in order for this standard to be a standard it has to be read like one. In this case the rule IMO is not subject to interpretation. Maybe like others have said the AHJ just doesn't know more than the tables in 250. Maybe he is inspecting on "this is the way I was taught by grandpa sitting on a barstool"
Make them explain in writing what the violation is. Back water home town or under the big city lights it is still the same standard written in the same words.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: size g.e.c to driven rods
That is really a shame. Cue the dueling banjos!Originally posted by allenwayne:
Roger do i insist I see it in writing no !!!This is backwoods to the utmost definition.Just what i want to do is push the envelope with a guy that will be inspecting 5 or 600 homes in the next 3 months for us.Call it caving in if you like but all I want is for them to pass rough/final.That way the Builder can get frame and final building inspections.here we can debate it till the cows come home in reality if you buck to hard the only thing you do is P off a vital part fo the domino effect
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