sizing disconnect switch (second one)

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brock1221

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Location
Alton, IL
SO I have 120/240V going overhead from a single phase 25kVA pole mounted transformer. This overhead line will go to a service pole near two small buildings. The power (120/240) must be fed to the two small buildings. At the new service pole, I plan to have two disconnect switches and run the power thru the disconnects to each of the buildings. I know that one of the switches needs to be rated 200A with 125 fuses. However, I do not know what to size the other switch to? One building consist of one 100A Panel, the other building has two 100A lighting panels, one on each side. Any help OR clarity of sizing the other disconnect switch

Thanks
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
FWIW

If I were inspecting this based on your description, I would not be able to approve the install based on violation of Art 225.34(A) Disconnects not grouped (second building)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I agree with Augie that multiple main disconnecting means at a building need to be grouped together. You also can only supply one feeder to a separate structure - though it isn't all that clear just what is being installed

Unless you have a specific reason to want two disconnects at the pole, why not just one? You must have a disconnect at each structure regardless. Single 200 amp disconnect at the pole is likely sufficient, don't know your load calc, but if POCO has a 25 kVA transformer, I doubt you have that much load that 200 amps isn't enough unless you were witholding some information for them when subscribing for service. Feeder taps you install to each building are outdoors and can be unlimited in length - a single overcurrent device is required at the load end of the tap - but the building served needs a main disconnect at the building anyway.
 

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The op is putting 2 disconnects on a service pole and then feeding the 2 buildings. If that is what he is doing then what is the issue? He would need to comply with article 225 at each building, of course.
 

augie47

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Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
The op is putting 2 disconnects on a service pole and then feeding the 2 buildings. If that is what he is doing then what is the issue? He would need to comply with article 225 at each building, of course.
and, to me, that was the only "issue", the building with the two panels did not comply with Art 225

(doesn't address the OPs original question but felt it should be brought to his attention... just wearing my inspectors hat and not trying to 'engineer' :) )
 
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Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
SO I have 120/240V going overhead from a single phase 25kVA pole mounted transformer. This overhead line will go to a service pole near two small buildings. The power (120/240) must be fed to the two small buildings. At the new service pole, I plan to have two disconnect switches and run the power thru the disconnects to each of the buildings. I know that one of the switches needs to be rated 200A with 125 fuses. However, I do not know what to size the other switch to? One building consist of one 100A Panel, the other building has two 100A lighting panels, one on each side. Any help OR clarity of sizing the other disconnect switch

Thanks

You really should do a load calculation for the buildings to see what size feeder you need.

I now see what Gus & Kwired are talking about-- does the building with 2 panels need 2 feeds or is one fed from the other? Can't bring 2 feeds to the building however you certainly can bring the feeder to one panel if, it in turn, feeds the other panel.
 
I know that one of the switches needs to be rated 200A with 125 fuses. However, I do not know what to size the other switch to? One building consist of one 100A Panel, the other building has two 100A lighting panels, one on each side. Any help OR clarity of sizing the other disconnect switch

Thanks

Why 200 A with 125 fuses? I dont understand that. Is there a meter on the pole with the two disconnects?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Why 200 A with 125 fuses? I dont understand that. Is there a meter on the pole with the two disconnects?
Because 125 amp fuses won't fit in a 100 amp disconnect?

But like I said, an outside feeder tap can be unlimited in length and I would likely tap both from same feeder.
 

brock1221

Member
Location
Alton, IL
a bit of clarity....

1.two buildings == two trailers
2.from what I was told the two disconnects being on the same service pole was ok, maybe its because the feeds are going into trailers..:?

3.single wide has one panel..double wide has two.(panels) There may be future expansion of loads (in the area) so the rating of the disconnect gives some flexibility

4.From what I was, told feeder load calc are typically not done

I am new..so I dont know all the articles but just wanted to see anyones suggestion concerning
I also learned there is a general rule from most utility companies to size up devices to address fluctuations in the grid (whenever it happens) Dont know how true this is.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
a bit of clarity....

1.two buildings == two trailers
2.from what I was told the two disconnects being on the same service pole was ok, maybe its because the feeds are going into trailers..:?

3.single wide has one panel..double wide has two.(panels) There may be future expansion of loads (in the area) so the rating of the disconnect gives some flexibility

4.From what I was, told feeder load calc are typically not done

I am new..so I dont know all the articles but just wanted to see anyones suggestion concerning
I also learned there is a general rule from most utility companies to size up devices to address fluctuations in the grid (whenever it happens) Dont know how true this is.
If two "trailers" means "mobile homes" you should review art 550. In particular 550.32 for the questions you are asking here. The mobile home must have service disconnect (or a disconnect rated suitable for service equipment if supplied by a feeder) within sight and within 30 feet of the mobile home. In your case with multiple homes there are several ways it can be done, all depending on where disconnecting means are located in regards to the mobile home served and whether or not we are involving a service or feeder for the supply.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
a bit of clarity....

1.two buildings == two trailers
Are these residential units or office type "trailers" ?

2.from what I was told the two disconnects being on the same service pole was ok, maybe its because the feeds are going into trailers..:?
Two disconnects on the same service pole is not problem. If they are "service disconnects" for residential type "trailers" Art 550.32 would be important as kwired notes above.

3.single wide has one panel..double wide has two.(panels) There may be future expansion of loads (in the area) so the rating of the disconnect gives some flexibility
The single wire poses no problem but the fact that there are two panels on the double wide is a challenge since the NEC does not generally allow
two services or feeders to one structure. We often have manufactured buildings (Art 545) with panels in each section and a normal arrangement
would be a single exterior panel feeding each of the two interior panels.

4.From what I was, told feeder load calc are typically not done
In regard to "trailers" or manufactured buildings, at some point a load calculation was likely done to select the "main" for the unit. Feeders or service calculations for the conductors that supply that unit are normally selected based on the size of that "main" so additional calculations are not performed (The manufacturer selects a 200 amp panel, we supply it with a 200 amp feeder without questioning)
On your double wide, unless you want to match the sum of the two mains in the unit, you would need to calculate a load (for example if you now have two 200 amp main panels in the unit you can supply a 400 amp feeder to supply them or, if you calculate, the feeder could be smaller
I am new..so I dont know all the articles but just wanted to see anyones suggestion concerning
I also learned there is a general rule from most utility companies to size up devices to address fluctuations in the grid (whenever it happens) Dont know how true this is.
 

brock1221

Member
Location
Alton, IL
The two trailers are office trailers..the loads in the trailers are just typical lighting and no heavy appliances ..etc
The service pole (with the two disconnects going into each of the two trailers) is in very close proximity of the trailers..I was told that instead of load calculations..they have a "rule of thumb" concerning power for each trailer. 5KVA per side of trailer..meaning double wide=10Kva..Iam curious to see if anyone else knows about this.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Biggest concern would be Heat and Air !
The ones we see here typically have 10-15kw of heat.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The two trailers are office trailers..the loads in the trailers are just typical lighting and no heavy appliances ..etc
The service pole (with the two disconnects going into each of the two trailers) is in very close proximity of the trailers..I was told that instead of load calculations..they have a "rule of thumb" concerning power for each trailer. 5KVA per side of trailer..meaning double wide=10Kva..Iam curious to see if anyone else knows about this.

Who's rule of thumb is that? It is not anything from NEC.

If you have electric heat you will be well over that figure.

If you have air conditioning, it would eat up your 5 KVA pretty easily
 
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