Slim Canless LED Junction boxes

Aledrell

Senior Member
Good afternoon guys,

Here’s a situation that came up last week and think it may continue to be an issue i the future. So the new canless leds get more popular by the day, they don’t take up insulation space, joists morning longer affect layout, etc.
Had a home inspector representing a buyer of home claim the junction boxes of these lights needs to be secure. If these boxes are to remain accessible from underneath that securing them may hinder that ability if we’re using 4” can light. And if you look at Home Depot’s version of these their commercial electric brand for example, the installation instructions actually illustrate placing the junction box inside the attic or ceiling space without securing the box. I fact their brand doesn’t even have holes for a screw todo this. So do you send it back and say installed per manufactures specs or secure the boxes as the home inspector wanted? Does the NEC make a distinction between a traditional junction box and one that’s part of a fixture? Appreciate your options as always, thanks.


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tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
What do the can light instructions say? if this is a listed product, then thats OK, see 110.3 (B)
The Home Inspector (s) are not licensed electricians, the requirements to be a home inspector are no where near the number of hours to be an electrician.
And your installation, was it inspected. If so end of story.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
Just tell the HO or inspector that its part of the listing of the light. These boxes are so small you can't put more than two NM cables in them like you could with a traditional junction box.
 

Aledrell

Senior Member
What do the can light instructions say? if this is a listed product, then thats OK, see 110.3 (B)
The Home Inspector (s) are not licensed electricians, the requirements to be a home inspector are no where near the number of hours to be an electrician.
And your installation, was it inspected. If so end of story.

Here it is....


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hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,Ga
The ones I just put in do have mounting holes, so I have them mounted. Open joist to be covered with wood planks. About to find out how well the inspector likes or dislikes it. With old work, it would be difficult to fasten even with the mounting holes.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
home inspector
HI's in my area are often unlicensed , uninsured, and many times not even registered as a HI in business

In the event these sorts grace the inside of a court, they're summarily dismissed as unreliable and unviable sources of credibility

The next litigant target being the last 'licensed ,Insured ,registered' entity of trade related caliber

ask me how i know.....:cry:

~RJ~
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I would just follow the instructions. I've installed many of the Halo brand of these fixtures and the newer one have a mounting bracket that comes unattached. The older ones had an integral mounting bracket. I always mount them to the nearest joist.
 

Aledrell

Senior Member
This isn’t very practical if it’s a 4” light in the center of a 24” joist span in a remodel situation with no attic access. My point is that the box is designed to be accessible through the light opening which makes them so user friendly. If you had to get in the attic to access the junction box or to secure it you’d never use the flat cans you stick to the traditional styles.


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infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
This isn’t very practical if it’s a 4” light in the center of a 24” joist span in a remodel situation with no attic access. My point is that the box is designed to be accessible through the light opening which makes them so user friendly. If you had to get in the attic to access the junction box or to secure it you’d never use the flat cans you stick to the traditional styles.
You right, around here just about everything is 16" on center so you can mount the box to a joist if you absolutely had to but I agree these are designed to lay the box above the ceiling without mounting. The advantage of the fixture being only 1/2" thick is that you can mount them under a joist even if you had access from above which might be required to get the proper spacing in your layout.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
HI's in my area are often unlicensed , uninsured, and many times not even registered as a HI in business
I wasn't even aware that there WAS a license for HI's. Many times these guys are ex-contractors or worked for a contractor. Then there are those who are just looking for a job. I did see a HI firm's website claiming that all their inspectors are licensed PEs though. Problem there is that a PE won't normally have disciplines in all those areas.

Many years ago some HI inspector school posted a link to their on-line exam, I don't remember if it was an aptitude test or an actual exam that their graduates take. I think it may have been the latter because it was quite comprehensive. Anyway, many of us here took it and passed with probably at least 95 out of 100. The guy was so impressed that he offered us all a job.

-Hal
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I wasn't even aware that there WAS a license for HI's. Many times these guys are ex-contractors or worked for a contractor. Then there are those who are just looking for a job. I did see a HI firm's website claiming that all their inspectors are licensed PEs though. Problem there is that a PE won't normally have disciplines in all those areas.

Many years ago some HI inspector school posted a link to their on-line exam, I don't remember if it was an aptitude test or an actual exam that their graduates take. I think it may have been the latter because it was quite comprehensive. Anyway, many of us here took it and passed with probably at least 95 out of 100. The guy was so impressed that he offered us all a job.

-Hal
Well some places you need a license to pick your nose, so it only seems logical a HI would need a license also :)
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Licensing for HI's is a good thing. Quite often they're recommended by the realtor so without some kind of license or certification you never know what you're getting for your money. Also it does provide a measure of accountability when the bad ones can have their licenses pulled.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Well some places you need a license to pick your nose, so it only seems logical a HI would need a license also
Then they'll find something wrong with the booger.

Licensing for HI's is a good thing. Quite often they're recommended by the realtor so without some kind of license or certification you never know what you're getting for your money. Also it does provide a measure of accountability when the bad ones can have their licenses pulled.
Never said it wasn't a good idea. Just never saw it. Realtors will recommend HI's that will be partial to them depending on whether they are representing the buyer or the seller. Seller= minor problems. Buyer= problems that can be used to negotiate over.

-Hal
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,Ga
Went out on one call to repair the HI's list, he had a picture of a knick in the outer sheath of a piece of romex where they pulled it across a rafter, no damage other than the outer sheath. In the same picture, a couple feet over, an open j box with wires sticking straight up out of it, no mention in the report! LOL!
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Realtors will recommend HI's that will be partial to them depending on whether they are representing the buyer or the seller. Seller= minor problems. Buyer= problems that can be used to negotiate over.
Realtors are usually long gone by the time buyer/seller disputes fester

It always comes down to what the HI 'missed' in his report , which if said HI had no contractors insurance ,falls to the next entity who does

again, i learned this the hard way....

ergo, i get an HI's report, address their electrical specifics, as well as list all of what they conveniently walked right by on their way to that double tapped breaker back to the realtor

ironically, some of what i've gained was from NACHI , who are for real.....

It's a sure fire way to protect yourself as an EC, as well as have realtors avoid you like C-19

~RJ~
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,Ga
Meant to get pictures today of a Juno 3” led can light that needed a new driver, you supposedly could change the driver out through the hole. Luckily it was open attic above, and right at the attic hatch. Huge can with a hinged lid, opened it up, yeah, you might get it out that hole if you had really small hands and arms, driver was in the back side of the can about 6” away from the hole with a fancy little catch that would have took two hands to release! LOL!
 
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