Small commercial building outlet placement

olly

Senior Member
Rookie question... I am doing a small commercial building, two small offices and a bathroom.

A few questions:

1. Outlets can be placed anywhere no code requires a certain amount, correct? An engineer half assed a layout plan he has them in a few places. I can just follow his plan right?

2. He doesn't have the bathroom gfci within 2' of the sink. Does it need to be in this setting?

3. Is there anything wrong with doing 15a circuits for everything except the bathroom gfci? It is wood studs so I am using romex.

4. Does everything need to be AFCI protected like residential?

5. do the outlets need to be tamper resistant?
 
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tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Except for a service area receptacle, HVAC service recp (and conference room receptacles) none are required. Some locations, when installed will require AFCI.
Don't need bath recp, but needs to be GFCI if within 6 ft of sink. Review 210.8 and 210.52
What is building used for? Non dwelling loads can be high, two heaters will max our a 15 amp circuit. I would go with 20.
No on AFCI (at least not yet)

Please check on building type to make sure NM cable can be used, just because it wood studs does not mean NM can be used
 

olly

Senior Member
Except for a service area receptacle, HVAC service recp (and conference room receptacles) none are required. Some locations, when installed will require AFCI.
Don't need bath recp, but needs to be GFCI if within 6 ft of sink. Review 210.8 and 210.52
What is building used for? Non dwelling loads can be high, two heaters will max our a 15 amp circuit. I would go with 20.
No on AFCI (at least not yet)

Please check on building type to make sure NM cable can be used, just because it wood studs does not mean NM can be used
The building will be used for, 1 small office, 1 small conference room and a bathroom for the general pubic with in the community. Its for a gated community Hoa office building. I am not sure if that answers what building type it is. Not sure where to find the building type?
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
See annex E however, before you make the call there should be some permitting and architectural documentation that spells it out.

Roger
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Agreed. A wiring plan should be made to suit the users.

I would definitely use 20a circuits; more load/area per.
 

growler

Senior Member
The building will be used for, 1 small office, 1 small conference room and a bathroom for the general pubic with in the community. Its for a gated community Hoa office building.
I am pretty darn sure that you will be able to use Romex and 15 amp circuits if that's what you wish.

Having said that there can always be local amendments that would require something more. When working in a strange area where you don't know all the rules it's good to give the inspection department a call and make sure of what is what.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Except for a service area receptacle, HVAC service recp (and conference room receptacles) none are required. Some locations, when installed will require AFCI.
Don't need bath recp, but needs to be GFCI if within 6 ft of sink. Review 210.8 and 210.52
What is building used for? Non dwelling loads can be high, two heaters will max our a 15 amp circuit. I would go with 20.
No on AFCI (at least not yet)

Please check on building type to make sure NM cable can be used, just because it wood studs does not mean NM can be used
Other than dwelling: entire bath needs GFCI not just within 6 feet of sink (2017).

Don't review 210.52 that only applies to dwellings, 210.63, 210.64 are only things that require any specific receptacle outlets in OP's application.

NM most likely can be used but has some restrictions you don't usually find in single family dwellings. Can not run it within a suspended ceiling and usually will need to be behind at least a 15 minute finish rating.
 

thejcknight

New User
If an engineered drawing definitely revise the specs (if any) as they usually prohibit use of NM, #14 wire, 15A devices, etc. And I agree with checking with local AHJ, type of construction and of course the GC of what and which specs apply.
 

olly

Senior Member
Other than dwelling: entire bath needs GFCI not just within 6 feet of sink (2017).

Don't review 210.52 that only applies to dwellings, 210.63, 210.64 are only things that require any specific receptacle outlets in OP's application.

NM most likely can be used but has some restrictions you don't usually find in single family dwellings. Can not run it within a suspended ceiling and usually will need to be behind at least a 15 minute finish rating.
Thank you Kwired, are tamper resistant receptacles required in this senerio?
 

growler

Senior Member
1. Outlets can be placed anywhere no code requires a certain amount, correct? An engineer half assed a layout plan he has them in a few places. I can just follow his plan right?
I'm pretty sure that you will be required to meet ADA height requirements when placing the receptacles. I didn't think of this until I read your other post.
 

olly

Senior Member
Other than dwelling: entire bath needs GFCI not just within 6 feet of sink (2017).

Don't review 210.52 that only applies to dwellings, 210.63, 210.64 are only things that require any specific receptacle outlets in OP's application.

NM most likely can be used but has some restrictions you don't usually find in single family dwellings. Can not run it within a suspended ceiling and usually will need to be behind at least a 15 minute finish rating.
Kwired, are you saying the lights and fan in the bathroom need to be GFCI protected also? If so can you put it all on one breaker?
 

david

Senior Member
The building will be used for, 1 small office, 1 small conference room and a bathroom for the general pubic with in the community. Its for a gated community Hoa office building. I am not sure if that answers what building type it is. Not sure where to find the building type?
Its not only the type of construction, its not just prohibited above suspended ceilings

Its not allowed above suspended ceilings because they have access panels that make the area above the ceiling exposed.
basements in commercial buildings have exposed areas

attics with access panels make the area exposed

reading carefully NM cable and NMC cable and other cable types that send you to NM for wiring methods must determine what the section means by concealed in contrast to being exposed and subject to being damaged
 

kwired

Electron manager
Kwired, are you saying the lights and fan in the bathroom need to be GFCI protected also? If so can you put it all on one breaker?
Only thing 210.8 covers is receptacle outlets, and boat hoists.Then more recently they added kitchen diswashers and crawl space lighting.

So the receptacles are all that are required to be GFCI protected, anything else is optional or if required is by instructions specific to the product and not to NEC. No general rules stating items you mention can't all be on same circuit either unless an individual item would otherwise require it's own circuit. A common item that may require it's own circuit is a heater unit.
 
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