Smart panels for residential (prioritizing, load shifting, etc)

[Ricko1980]

Hi all,

Anyone have tips about Eaton Energy Management Circuit Breakers or Lumin Smart Panels or some other product intended to facilitate shifting loads between residential circuits (i.e., the electric stove is turned on, so the panel "smartly" turns off car charger)? I haven't worked with these before and am looking into installing one for a client who's trying to avoid a particularly expensive service upgrade (lots of sidewalk to rip up, trenching in bedrock, etc).

In short, there are only 2 appliances that really need "instantaneous use": dryer and stove. The others (EV charger, water heater, heat pump space conditioning) can be off for an hour without anyone getting upset, so they'd be lower priority.

Some products out there like the "Span" panels, look interesting but maybe more high-tech than needed? Anyone ever install one?

I know that in Berkeley back after the big fires in the 1910s there was a brief period when gas wasn't allowed, and there was some kind of demand-shifting that got built into a bunch of all-electric homes. Meaning that they had space conditioning that couldn't be on at the same time as stoves/water heaters, for example. Anyone know what the old-fashioned way of doing this was, and if there's still anything being manufactured that would make that work (preferably per NEC)?

 

[Ricko1980]

Also, I see there's another thread that didn't really take off on the Span panels, and the Leviton ones are mentioned for load shedding.

I'm looking for something that will also turn circuits back on, like I believe the Span panel does. I believe the Leviton ones will only turn circuits off? (And I saw a review saying they were very loud?)

 

[mikeames]

You wrote "instantaneous use" I assume you mean simultaneous use? So the issue is load shedding since there is more load than the service can supply?

The Span panel looks "cool" but after that wears off it's an expensive energy monitoring system. Not sure how often people would want to turn off circuits at the breaker with their phone. What does it use for breakers or AFCI ??? I looked on their site but didn't find any info.

The lumin product you mentioned seems to fit your need the best. You can add it on to the existing service and maintain the AFCI protection if needed. Changing out that panel may commit you upgrading the service, I don't know?

 

[Fred B]

You wrote "instantaneous use" I assume you mean simultaneous use? So the issue is load shedding since there is more load than the service can supply?

The Span panel looks "cool" but after that wears off it's an expensive energy monitoring system. Not sure how often people would want to turn off circuits at the breaker with their phone. What does it use for breakers or AFCI ??? I looked on their site but didn't find any info.

The lumin product you mentioned seems to fit your need the best. You can add it on to the existing service and maintain the AFCI protection if needed. Changing out that panel may commit you upgrading the service, I don't know?

It looks to use any mfg breaker similar to SD HOM, or Eaton BR, or Siemens. So their AFCI or GFCI would work. Looking at the you tube video on this unit saw that there are contactors built in behind the unit that does the switching, that is different from the Leviton panel that uses a smart breaker but will not allow turning back on. It also had a failure issue that was computer hardware related that allowed circuit to be turned off but couldn't get it to turn back on as the turning off/on is a result of the background contactors and software.
Looks interesting for the computer geek type but very expensive outside of the silicon valley, or other high income areas.
One plus it does allow built into unit load shedding for back up generator use, or just desire to monitor and limit power consumption for peak utilization times if the POCO is offering different rates for prime time use.

 

[ptonsparky]

Our POCOs have just started offering residential time of day rate advantages. Load control could become an interesting side job in the area.

 

[gadfly56]

Our POCOs have just started offering residential time of day rate advantages. Load control could become an interesting side job in the area.

In the early to mid 80's I lived in an all-electric apartment. I did the comparisons, and concluded that I would save money with time-of-day service, so I signed up. "Load control" was not leaving the thermostat up at night or when I was away.

 

[pbryn1983]

@Ricko1980 thanks for this post.

I have a very similar need (in my case, I'm trying to ditch all gas and switch to electric, but do so without upgrading my 100A panel to 200A since it'd be a big job). Anyway, I agree that Lumin seems to be the best fit. I'm wondering if you made any progress on this or have any tips you might share that you learned?

Thanks.

 

[Ricko1980]

@pbryn1983 We ended up doing the service upgrade, since they wanted to future proof for more solar than their existing service wires would have allowed anyway, and the "magic" to keep their existing service was pretty complicated.

They were at 60A service. If you're at 100A, I'd try to do a 220.87 load study, then add the range, then do another load study and add the rest of it. I've found this often works in the Bay Area for single family houses under about 2000 ft2, as long as the lights are LED and there aren't any unusual loads I'm not aware of (kilns, welders, etc).

Once you've got the range in, you can then add a 40A EV charger on a SimpleSwitch sharing that same circuit with no impact to service calculation, since they can't be on simultaneously.

Check out Redwood Energy's pocket guide to single family retrofits for some ideas, especially about low amperage options out there.

 

[hillbilly1]

A simple current sensor(s) and a contactor can do what you want very easily. Low tech, and cheap. I don’t know if the car charger will automatically restart after power is restored.

 

[retirede]

A simple current sensor(s) and a contactor can do what you want very easily. Low tech, and cheap. I don’t know if the car charger will automatically restart after power is restored.

All EVSEs I’m familiar with require no user action when power is restored.

 

[kwired]

A simple current sensor(s) and a contactor can do what you want very easily. Low tech, and cheap. I don’t know if the car charger will automatically restart after power is restored.

That was my thought, yet at same time probably just as simple or similar cost to upgrade from that 100 to 200 amp service in many cases, and no contactors or current sensors to potentially fail down the road and add service costs for the customer. The AFCI's/GFCI's that may get added in the process are probably added either way and is a non factor.

 

[tallgirl]

All EVSEs I’m familiar with require no user action when power is restored.

"Power restored" is no different from "freshly plugged in". Using a contactor to control an EVSE with a bang-bang controller is one way to load control if you don't have a smart EVSE which can reduce load in response to another EVSE being active.