Smoke alarm location

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jetlag

Senior Member
The code states a smoke alarm must be present in sleeping area and also outside of sleeping areas in the location of the bedrooms. I have a stair case with a door at the top that opens into a small hall that contains 2 bedroom doors. Should the alarm for outside of bedrooms be placed in the small hall or on the other side of door as your start down the stairs . It seems any smoke from the lower floor will be blocked by the door at top of stairs if I put the alarm in the hall , only a fire in the hall itself would have direct contact with the alarm. The owner wanted the extra door at top of stair so he could leave both bedroom doors open some time since one is a babies room .
 

jetlag

Senior Member
thanks jim

thanks jim

to meet code you need it in the hall . If he is concerned with safety i would put another on other side as well because smoke from bottom floor will rise
I was wanting to put two already, but wanted to confirm I wasnt completely stupid for thinking that way . Ive seen people install them on the wall , isnt there something about a location from ceiling to do that ? Im thinking about in the door header or the wall over the stairs so it will be safe to reach . :grin::grin:
 
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Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I was wanting to put two already, but wanted to confirm I wasnt completely stupid for thinking that way . Ive seen people install them on the wall , isnt there something about a location from ceiling to do that ? Im thinking about in the door header or the wall over the stairs so it will be safe to reach . :grin::grin:
Keep them out of corners as smoke might not reach them. I prefer on ceiling but yes make it reachable. If no landing it is hard to use a ladder
 

acrwc10

Senior Member
I would use 2 smokes, there is an argument that 2 would be required and I know inspectors that would make you put both in. I would advise reading the paper work that comes with the smoke detector ( at least once in your life :grin: ) it is enlightening. Also no lower then 12" from the ceiling if you put it on the wall.
 

jetlag

Senior Member
Thank to all for replies, one more question, Is there any thing in code about a seperate circuit must be ran to smoke alarms, I have heard this but never found it in the code, as far as i know you can tie into the nearest circuit .
 

construct

Senior Member
Is there any thing in code about a seperate circuit must be ran to smoke alarms, I have heard this but never found it in the code, as far as i know you can tie into the nearest circuit .
From the 2006 ICCEC (Administrative Provisions for NEC): Sec 1202.5 says "Smoke detectors shall not be connected as the only load on a branch circuit. Such detectors shall be supplied by branch circuits having lighting loads consisting of lighting outlets in habitable spaces".
 

acrwc10

Senior Member
Thank to all for replies, one more question, Is there any thing in code about a separate circuit must be ran to smoke alarms, I have heard this but never found it in the code, as far as i know you can tie into the nearest circuit .
It is not required to have them on a single or separate circuit. If you have 11 smoke detectors they can be fed from 11 deferent circuits (with lighting, receptacle, etc.) the only thing is they need to be inter connected, this can be done by wired or wireless means. Remember also the lead that interconnects them is not at line voltage, they are battery backed up so the voltage would not exceed the battery voltage, and I believe they are on a signal/frequency anyhow.
I have used a Kiddie brand wireless in a house where one of the hardwired ones was missed and it worked great.
 

jetlag

Senior Member
It is not required to have them on a single or separate circuit. If you have 11 smoke detectors they can be fed from 11 deferent circuits (with lighting, receptacle, etc.) the only thing is they need to be inter connected, this can be done by wired or wireless means. Remember also the lead that interconnects them is not at line voltage, they are battery backed up so the voltage would not exceed the battery voltage, and I believe they are on a signal/frequency anyhow.
I have used a Kiddie brand wireless in a house where one of the hardwired ones was missed and it worked great.
Never thought about that before , so you are saying instead of running 14/3 between every alarm you can tie in nearest lighting circuit with 14/2 and just run a single strand small wire to join together, Is that allowed by code ? Is there a type of wire that is approved ? Im not sure I want the wireless .
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
It is not required to have them on a single or separate circuit. If you have 11 smoke detectors they can be fed from 11 deferent circuits (with lighting, receptacle, etc.) the only thing is they need to be inter connected, this can be done by wired or wireless means. Remember also the lead that interconnects them is not at line voltage, they are battery backed up so the voltage would not exceed the battery voltage, and I believe they are on a signal/frequency anyhow.
I have used a Kiddie brand wireless in a house where one of the hardwired ones was missed and it worked great.
Never thought about that before , so you are saying instead of running 14/3 between every alarm you can tie in nearest lighting circuit with 14/2 and just run a single strand small wire to join together, Is that allowed by code ? Is there a type of wire that is approved ? Im not sure I want the wireless .
Wrong. A single circuit read the manufactures specs.
http://www.kidde.com/utcfs/ws-384/Assets/Silhouette_Smoke_Manual_En_2.pdf

From the 2006 ICCEC (Administrative Provisions for NEC): Sec 1202.5 says "Smoke detectors shall not be connected as the only load on a branch circuit. Such detectors shall be supplied by branch circuits having lighting loads consisting of lighting outlets in habitable spaces".
Got a link for that?
 

lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
I think it needs to be on the SAME circuit, but it's not allowed to be dedicated. I think the reasoning for the latter is that should the breaker trip and you have nothing on it but smokes, you may not notice and it leaves you unprotected.
 

lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
Remember also the lead that interconnects them is not at line voltage, they are battery backed up so the voltage would not exceed the battery voltage, and I believe they are on a signal/frequency anyhow
I always wondered what this wire puts out .. I may measure mine when I get a chance. I figured it just got hot when in alarm and anything tied to it would also be in alarm. It's a common hot alarm bus so to speak. When on battery power though, it wouldn't be 120V though...that's for sure.
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
I think it needs to be on the SAME circuit, but it's not allowed to be dedicated. I think the reasoning for the latter is that should the breaker trip and you have nothing on it but smokes, you may not notice and it leaves you unprotected.
313.2 Power source.

In new construction, the required smoke alarms shall receive their primary power from the building wiring when such wiring is served from a commercial source, and when primary power is interrupted, shall receive power from a battery. Wiring shall be permanent and without a disconnecting switch other than those required for overcurrent protection. Smoke alarms shall be permitted to be battery operated when installed in buildings without commercial power or in buildings that undergo alterations, repairs or additions regulated by Section 313.1.1.

You have batteries for back up. I think that they 'chirp' when the batteries are low.?

Still this is the first that I have ever heard that they may not be on a dedicated circuit.
 

jetlag

Senior Member
Notice the suppy to alarm also has to be a circuit with "lighting" outlets , I figure that is so you will notice if the power is of , If on a circuit with receps only or dedicated circuit you might not notice. But the battery chirps when the power is off , so to not notice the battery would have to be dead also, I think.
 

jetlag

Senior Member
I always wondered what this wire puts out .. I may measure mine when I get a chance. I figured it just got hot when in alarm and anything tied to it would also be in alarm. It's a common hot alarm bus so to speak. When on battery power though, it wouldn't be 120V though...that's for sure.
I believe the common is on the load side of the alarm and sends it to the same on the other alarms, so the voltage should be 9 v . but it seems there would be a lot of voltage drop to wire 9 volts to alarms in a large house .
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
From the 2006 ICCEC (Administrative Provisions for NEC): Sec 1202.5 says "Smoke detectors shall not be connected as the only load on a branch circuit. Such detectors shall be supplied by branch circuits having lighting loads consisting of lighting outlets in habitable spaces".
So all the years that we feed the smokes off the basement lighting circuit we were wrong?

"HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces."

Next Home Inspection that I do I will call out all these violations. Imagine how many friends that I will make. Just making a point boys.
 
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