Smoke Detector & Alarm Panel

Status
Not open for further replies.
rkrieger

rkrieger

Member
:rolleyes: Without actually checking the "signal" voltage of a typical residential 3 wire smoke detector, I am wondering if anyone knows whether the signal circuit puts out a DC or AC signal, what voltage range and IF it would be strong enough to operate a simple contactor to send a "fire" signal to an alarm panel. I know that alarm guys often install their own detectors in a house during rough-in, but why not have both?? Our MRC code in Michigan requires a "looped" detector in every bedroom and every hall besides one in the basement, or at each living elevation. So, why not use the availability of the existing detectors to "trigger" a 12 volt alarm panel where a typical fire loop is N.O. The contactor would send a latched signal to the panel and thus the dialer would call out.

Anyone had experience with this????

Thanks,
RLK :smile:
 
Most manufacturers have a NO/NC module that you can install. I use BRK's, and the part number is RM3. I have installed a number of these over the years to tie my AC smokes to an alarm system.

Be careful, though, that in some jurisdictions, this may not be a substitute for LV alarms, as this relay is not latching. As soon as the AC smoke resets, the alarm system sees no further problem and may revert to 'normal' mode.
 
Last edited:
Edward's also makes a simple relay for this purpose.
I have used them to send a signal to a FAC as well as in-line with a heat detector (2-wire)
 
Yeah, use the relay, but to answer your question more directly... Most of the 3-wire interconnected detectors nowadays use a 9VDC inter-tie signal. Many of the older one's (good candidates for replacement by now) used 120vac as the inter-tie signal.
 
[B]Thanks[/B]

Thanks

That's what I wanted to know. Any ideas on the specifics of the relay described??

Happy New Year to all.

:smile: RLK:smile:
 
I couldn't find the Edward's product I mentioned previously :confused:

Here are a couple of similar items:
CO120X-2T.jpg

Kidde Carbon Monoxide Alarm Relay



SM120X-2T.jpg

SM120X Kidde Smoke Relay
 
The alarm panel should latch the fire zone,via the relay.firex has a new combo,fire /co part # 501.But none of these relays WILL TRIP on loss of ac power. They are UL listed.
 
Found what I wanted

Found what I wanted

Because the current job uses Kidde smokes, I purchased one, opened box and actually read the literature (once I found the English section !!:smile: ) Showed the use of Kidde Part # SM120X accessory relay that is designed for my application. Didn't know that. Guess it pays to actually read the instructions. It was the same unit as referred to by "Celtic". Also will remember the Firex part number referred to in another post. Many thanks to those who have responded.

Happy New Year and stay safe !!!

RLK
 
let me know if this relay will trip when ac power is removed. I have yet to see one that will ... brk, firex,kide....ect...
 
I mean to say, remove ac power and try to trip the relay , for some reason. they only work when fulley energized with 120 vac
 
The 120VAC single-station smoke detector is not listed for use with a 'panel'. Also, each panel has a list of 'compatable detectors (and other devices). You will never see a 120 VAC detector listed on a compatability document from a panel.

In other words, it is never acceptable to do what you suggest.

The monitored low voltage device CAN be a substitute for the single-station (120VAC) device. The opposite is not an option.
 
I have never meet any alarm guy that use these relays.Most are not licensed to do so. They are ul listed for triggering remote. bells,horns,
These are for resi installs.ADT will try to sell 4 or 5 smokes to a customer for, What $150 - $200 each??? the cost of a esl 4 wire smoke is $35.i can monitor the whole house smokes and co with a $20 relay.Almost all EC install ther own smokes and co's, so you guys come in and install one right next to the 120 volt one. and more times than not, its wireless anyways.
 
I have never seen an alarm panel list a ansul system,But with a monitor module, and its own relay your good to go.
 
Last edited:
I was sure that you have to have all your smoke alarms go off when one goes off and that they have to have the same audible tone but I can't find anything that states it.
 
rkrieger said:
:rolleyes: Without actually checking the "signal" voltage of a typical residential 3 wire smoke detector, I am wondering if anyone knows whether the signal circuit puts out a DC or AC signal, what voltage range and IF it would be strong enough to operate a simple contactor to send a "fire" signal to an alarm panel. I know that alarm guys often install their own detectors in a house during rough-in, but why not have both?? Our MRC code in Michigan requires a "looped" detector in every bedroom and every hall besides one in the basement, or at each living elevation. So, why not use the availability of the existing detectors to "trigger" a 12 volt alarm panel where a typical fire loop is N.O. The contactor would send a latched signal to the panel and thus the dialer would call out.

Anyone had experience with this????

Thanks,
RLK :smile:
Click to expand...

My feeling is that this is not an acceptable installation. Here is my rationale. The 120V smoke detectors are UL listed as a local smoke alarm. They are NOT listed as a system smoke detector. NFPA 72 is very clear on the fact that devices must be listed for intended use. I beleive that connecting a smoke alarm to an alarm panel is a vilation, even if it is done through a listed relay. The listing of the relay does not change the listing of the smoke alarm to a system smoke detector.
 
Firegeek said:
The 120VAC single-station smoke detector is not listed for use with a 'panel'. Also, each panel has a list of 'compatable detectors (and other devices). You will never see a 120 VAC detector listed on a compatability document from a panel.

In other words, it is never acceptable to do what you suggest.

The monitored low voltage device CAN be a substitute for the single-station (120VAC) device. The opposite is not an option.
Click to expand...


welcome to the forum Firegeek. I agree. See my reply below for more information relating to the listing
 
thanx!

thanx!

Thanks for your kind words. I am glad to find this forum.
I am a NICET 3 sales guy in Massachusetts.

I understand the complaint that 'alarm guys' charge a lot for seemingly little work. Personally, I partner ith the EC to save money for the customer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top