smoke detector placement

[jeebs10]

smoke detector placement requirements seem to be one of the things that varys the most between localities, but that's usually in regard to hallways and bedrooms as far as i've seen. my question is this:

short version: do localities base their building codes on the nec or the nfac??

long version: i was finishing a rough-in today on a house and had just finished wiring up the smoke detectors. there was a 25' long hallway that i placed 2 smoke detectors in on the ceiling about 5' from each end of the hall, and 6" off the wall. shortly after our lead electrician comes behind me and rips the boxes off the ceiling and yelling saying "according to code smoke detectors have to be at least 12in off the wall." i told him he was full of it because the national fire alarm code clearly states that ceiling mounted smoke detectors must be no closer than 4in off the wall so my location was just fine. at that point he claimed that he had failed inspections before for mounting them less than 12in. he also yelled at me for the one that i placed in the living room. according to the nfac wall mounted smoke detectors must be within 12in of the ceiling but no closer than 4in. he told me that i put it "unnecessarily high" and asked me why i didn't mount it much lower (it was about an 18ft ceiling). he also yelled saying that "we don't follow the nfac because we're not installing a fair alarm system, just smoke detectors. we follow the nec." now i may have missed a section of the nec, but the only section i can find that pertains to smoke detectors is article 760. and in article 760 fpn no. 1 clearly says that the nec only covers the wiring and refers to the nfac for everything else regarding them. i assume that its referring to 11.8.3 - smoke detectors and smoke alarms in the nfac.

i'm just really sick of getting chewed out for doing things that im almost positive are correct. am i wrong here?? if anyone can give me a definite answer i would greatly appreciate it. thanks in advance!

 

[electrofelon]

The NEC does not address placement or requirements for smoke detectors. Here are a few links to recent discussions, the second touches on placement. 4" does sound a bit close to the wall, I recall either 8 or 12 inches in my locality.

http://www.mikeholt.com/codeForum/viewtopic.php?t=25578&highlight=
http://www.mikeholt.com/codeForum/viewtopic.php?t=25182&highlight=

 

[JohnE]

Smoke detectors are usually mandated by the building code. Both the IRC and MA building code (used in my area) specify smoke requirements for dwelling units and both reference NFPA 72 (Fire alarm code).

If you follow NFPA 72 requirements for dwelling units, I can't imagine you'd have a problem, but you should always check with AHJ.

Construction documents should show smoke detectors prior to being approved. So, GC or builder should have your answer.

 

[infinity]

From the 2002 NFPA72:

11.8.3.1 Flat Ceilings. Smoke alarms or smoke detectors mounted on a flat ceiling shall be located no closer than 102mm (4 in.) from an adjoining wall surface.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: smoke detector placement

2005 NEC
110.2 Approval.
The conductors and equipment required or permitted by this Code shall be acceptable only if approved.

100
Approved. Acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction.

I have posted to NEC references that I think would apply to this installation.
Let me explain.

long version: i was finishing a rough-in today on a house and had just finished wiring up the smoke detectors. there was a 25' long hallway that i placed 2 smoke detectors in on the ceiling about 5' from each end of the hall, and 6" off the wall.
shortly after our lead electrician comes behind me and rips the boxes off the ceiling and yelling

Here you state that the man is the lead man or the straw boss. In this case I believe that at this point in time he is the AHJ and at this point in time turned down your installation. Case closed.


As to the way the NEC addresses smoke alarms, look at 110.3(B).

 

[hornetd]

Life is too short to put up with a screamer. Competent foremen do not yell. There is a shortage of trained electricians so go find another job and to hell with that AS***LE!
--
Tom Horne

 

[brother]

Life is too short to put up with a screamer. Competent foremen do not yell.

I agree whole heartily!! I do NOT tolerate screamers!! :evil: :!: Ive been on too many jobs and got too much training and skill. and besides i dont yell at my apprentices, so no need for foreman to yell. its time to find another job like the brother said. :wink:

 

[George Stolz]

Mike, I don't understand your response. It seems pretty evident from Jeeb's description that the person was a (vocal) fellow employee, not an inspector.

I agree with the above posts. Life is too short to put up with screamers. Find a better employer, or at least put in for a transfer to someone else's crew. You were correct in your application of NFPA 72, as Trevor posted. Now, for asthetic reasons, the lead guy might have wanted the smokes centered in the hallway with the lights, etc, but he should have made his point without a tantrum.

I have requested to not work with one person in my time at my shop, and the boss understood. "Sometimes personalities clash, no problem." In return, you need to establish that you're not the one who's hard to work with, by establishing a good rapport with your other fellow employees. There may be a cloud over your head for a short time, but all you can do is work hard and demonstrate your value to the new crew.

 

[jwelectric]

Mike, I don't understand your response. It seems pretty evident from Jeeb's description that the person was a (vocal) fellow employee, not an inspector.

I was just pointing out what was originally posted

long version: our lead electrician comes behind me and rips the boxes off the ceiling

The key word in this sentence is LEAD
I take this to mean that he is the "Straw Boss" and therefore the one in charge.

I did not address the attidute of this person I only addressed that he is the boss and therefore what he says goes, or at least that is the way it works around here.

The motto I work by is simple, if you don?t want to be yelled at when you screw up stay the hell at home. Ever been in the military?

 

[dlhoule]

I don't like being yelled at either. I usually just tell them if you don't want me to make any mistakes, don't ask me to do anything.

Now I am expecting to be called on the carpet tomorrow. I had to change out a breaker.. I locked out feed to panel and proceeded to change breaker. Just about the time I got old breaker out of panel a gentleman (Ha) comes along screaming at me about him losing 6 hours of work. It seems he was using a program without using the auto backup available on it last Fri. and came in to try and finish it Sunday Morning. In this case regardless of the outcome I feel I was correct. Let them yell as long as it doesn't affect my income. The people I had talked to had said nobody was going to be working in that area on Sun. :roll: :evil:

 

[George Stolz]

Ever been in the military?

Nope.

Different management styles abound. I believe the "yelling" approach is the least productive, IMO.

 

[JohnE]

I've never yelled at an employee. I do not feel it is productive or motivational for the situation.

If I yelled everytime one of them screwed up I wouldn't have enough energy to do any work myself.

 

[celtic]

The motto I work by is simple, if you don?t want to be yelled at when you screw up stay the hell at home. Ever been in the military?

Last I recall...no one was drafted to work (except for pro atheletes ).

Work and military are two seperate and distinct beasts.

So if your reply to those who don't like being yelled at is to simply go home - why would ANYONE go to boot camp?

The last ass clown that yelled at me on a jobsite got my "I don't hear you when you yell" response...and then I turned and walked away. The rest of the crew doubled over laughing at this clown, which only made a giant vein in his beet-red forehead throb. Our next encounter went smoother - as he held his voice down to get himself heard...and avoid embarrassement. I was with that company for at least 2 years prior to this, and 5 years after it.
We all make mistakes.
Showing someone WHY or HOW what they did was incorrect is a much better lesson than screaming.

Now IF this was the military - it would be a completey different story...but it's NOT.